Using HEET for testing

Give results of stoves tested. At least three test burns made in succession using 1/2 ounce of denatured alcohol and 2 cups of water. Give any and all additional conditions that exist during testing.

Stoves bought retail and Do-It-Yourself stoves. Everyone is welcome to post their results and post comments.
oops56
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by oops56 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:13 pm

zelph wrote:
oops56 wrote:Test is done this a little short on boil but heet has a better flame patten
Image

Dn alcohol 15 mls and 1 ml for prime at 5.48 206F at 6.33 208f and flame out [16 mls total on both ]
Heet 15 mls and 1ml for prime at 5.48 201F at 6.18 203F flame out


This new stove a little shot on boil but 3/4 oz. be better or windscreen for me its ok

update this morning tried it again water temp 65f 1/2 oz. dn alcohol half a wind screen rolling boil 4. min.
The results are the same for both fuels, within a few seconds and degrees. That was not expected.

The stove is on the order of a supercat right?

Just today I saw HEET on sale 50 percent off end of season clearance at a tollway plaza here in Illinois.
Its like a super cat but got a wick in it plus a cover on top of the wick with neddle like holes
Man play with fire man get burnt

billinmt
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by billinmt » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:10 pm

Just my two cents worth... After you agree on a fuel type then you need to agree on a particular cook pot type or else your results will be different because of different shapes and widths of various pots used. Some stoves like the WBS work better with a wider pot where the Starlyte might work better with a smaller pot... after that you need to agree on starting water temperatures so your results will be consistent, big difference in 50 or 70 degree water.... then take into consideration altitude and boiling temps..... then how are each of you really going to know if you are putting exactly the same amount of fuel into the stove each and every time with out some sort of sophisticated measuring device. Me I just use an old syringe with ml/oz markings on it but I don't know if they are accurate or not and can't really tell if I fill it exactly the same each time I use it.... Oh yeah.... is your fuel fresh or has the container been opened dozens of times and been contaminated without you knowing it... How about measuring the water used in the test.... is your measuring cup really that accurate or are you just eyeballing it. I don't think any two testers can consistently meet all these criteria unless you use a highly controlled laboratory environment which probably isn't realistic for most of us.

With that said I think you should use 1 ounce fuel and 3 cups of water because I like my meals extra moist and still have some hot water left over for drinking/washing/brushing teeth. (here comes the mud slinging I was talking about earlier)

Just go buy/build a stove and have fun with it. It is not a competition to do so. Get used to how it works for you in your situation then go out and have a good time in the backcountry. Always take extra fuel (that's what we call "being prepared") so you don't have to worry if you brought enough along.... JMHO... OK the mud slinging can start I got my chest waders and rain coat on.... LOL

Bill in MT

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Ridgerunner
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by Ridgerunner » Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:51 pm

With that said I think you should use 1 ounce fuel and 3 cups of water because I like my meals extra moist and still have some hot water left over for drinking/washing/brushing teeth. (here comes the mud slinging I was talking about earlier)

Just go buy/build a stove and have fun with it. It is not a competition to do so. Get used to how it works for you in your situation then go out and have a good time in the backcountry. Always take extra fuel (that's what we call "being prepared") so you don't have to worry if you brought enough along.... JMHO... OK the mud slinging can start I got my chest waders and rain coat on.... LOL
I hear ya , Bill. If it works for you, cool beans! :D I'm sure most of our measurements are not "purely exact" and we strive to get the 2 cup boil on 1/2 ounce of fuel. If it take a little more, so what. My goal is to just have fun with it and see what unusual ideas I can come up with. I will let the engineers in the group work on the technical aspects of stove building. ;)
I can remember a canoe trip in college, when 20 of us had 10 canoes cruising down the creek. Nine of us were hooked together in the middle of the creek doing a little partying when out from under some overhanging creek edge foilage come our 2 buddies inthe 10th canoe. I knew something was up. Well the boys had filled the bottom of their canoe with mud and when the got to the floatilla of canoes, the mud slinging started, so Bill, this Muds for you !! :lol: :mrgreen:
"Many of lifes failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up".....Thomas Edison

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oops56
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by oops56 » Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:52 pm

I agree on it all as long as you can get a boil and not have any left over fuel it work for me. Now as for measuring mine was on the money cause i got one eye so no double seeing :lol: :lol:
Man play with fire man get burnt

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zelph
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by zelph » Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:01 pm

billinmt wrote:Just my two cents worth... After you agree on a fuel type then you need to agree on a particular cook pot type or else your results will be different because of different shapes and widths of various pots used. Some stoves like the WBS work better with a wider pot where the Starlyte might work better with a smaller pot... after that you need to agree on starting water temperatures so your results will be consistent, big difference in 50 or 70 degree water.... then take into consideration altitude and boiling temps..... then how are each of you really going to know if you are putting exactly the same amount of fuel into the stove each and every time with out some sort of sophisticated measuring device. Me I just use an old syringe with ml/oz markings on it but I don't know if they are accurate or not and can't really tell if I fill it exactly the same each time I use it.... Oh yeah.... is your fuel fresh or has the container been opened dozens of times and been contaminated without you knowing it... How about measuring the water used in the test.... is your measuring cup really that accurate or are you just eyeballing it. I don't think any two testers can consistently meet all these criteria unless you use a highly controlled laboratory environment which probably isn't realistic for most of us.

With that said I think you should use 1 ounce fuel and 3 cups of water because I like my meals extra moist and still have some hot water left over for drinking/washing/brushing teeth. (here comes the mud slinging I was talking about earlier)

Just go buy/build a stove and have fun with it. It is not a competition to do so. Get used to how it works for you in your situation then go out and have a good time in the backcountry. Always take extra fuel (that's what we call "being prepared") so you don't have to worry if you brought enough along.... JMHO... OK the mud slinging can start I got my chest waders and rain coat on.... LOL

Bill in MT
Thanks for your input Bill.

We're at a crawl stage here. At a beggining stage, we all seem to be in agreement that denatured alcohol varies greatly in formulations from one supplier to the next. I propose we use denatured for initial testing because of the cost savings. Once a stove is deemed worthy for DIY'ers make some tests with HEET and include the results with the submission of the stove.

Optimum Conditions are pretty much established as:

70 degree air temperature

70 degree water temperature

No appreciable air movement in area of testing

We're trying to establish a common ground here for testing. Daren and Tony are first class stove makers/designers and we would like to make them feel at home here, have some common ground so to speak.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by Tony » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:06 pm

Bill is right about volume measuring inaccuracies, I am currently researching for an article about measurement techniques for testing BP stoves, I work in a science lab and accurate measurement of mass, volume and temperature is a major part of my work, I use instruments that can measure 0.0001g, and 0.001C.

I measured lots of small and large measuring devices both scientific and domestic, I did this by filling them with water to a mark and then weighing them on some accurate scales, some where surprisingly accurate but some had 15-20% errors, I even checked some syringes and they where not as accurate as I would have thought. When we are talking about measuring small volumes of fuel in relation to stove testing it does not take much to put major error into the efficiency calculations.

I would also like to agree with Bill that it is going to be difficult to standardise testing procedures, We all think that we have the best stove testing techniques. It is impossible to standardise ambient temperature, water temperature, air pressure (altitude), fuel type (and bill is also right on fuel contamination), I sometimes think that the moon phases and sun spots have an effect on stove performance.

Bill also has the point that at the moment we are really only can compare our own tests not each others but I feel that it is possible to do some standardisation. It is a bit like when going SUL some of us need to think a bit different. I don’t really care if I have to use metric or the US measurement system, I do all of my testing in Metric they can be easily converted to the US system and visa versa is possible.

I personally do not like most of the measurement techniques that I read about and as Bill pointed out there is to much room for error in them. There are cheap and easy ways around standardised accurate BP stove testing techniques that can get around most of the differences, you do not need sophisticated equipment like I have, all that is needed are some accurate scales, a multimeter with a thermocouple and a stopwatch, most stoves raise the temperature linearly so the start temperature is not that important, the end temperature is more important, that is why I use what ever the temperature of the water that comes out of the tap and terminate the test at 95C and then extrapolate my results. The most accurate way of measuring volume is by measuring the mass and converting to volume, I measure to within 0.1g. The basis of my system is written about in the Starlyte stove test.

For me a fuel standard is probably going to be the most difficult part, I would be quite happy to use HEET but it is just not an option to me and Methanol is very hard to get. When I run out of my current Methanol supplies I am really stuck to using Australian denatured.

I am a member of this forum because I am always learning from much more experienced and skilled stove makers than myself especially with alcohol stoves.

Tony

oops56
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by oops56 » Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:49 pm

When i do my stove test same cup for measure i know it is little less little more. but as long as it is 1/2 oz. close and it boils 16 oz no mater what time thats the stove that work.most people on the trail or over night are not going to measure to close to a 1/2 oz. or some that get use to there stove just can pore and get close to be right. now if i was selling stove i weigh the fuel first then test. I wonder how may kitchen matches will it take to boil a cup water 8 oz. :?: :idea: :idea:
Man play with fire man get burnt

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zelph
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by zelph » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:05 pm

When I started the testing thread it was with the fuel that caused some concern.

When I do my testing I'll use both and give results for both as I have mentioned. If someone can use the Heet info that will be good.

Let's all do it the same way we always have.

Do as Bill suggests:
Just go buy/build a stove and have fun with it. It is not a competition to do so. Get used to how it works for you in your situation then go out and have a good time in the backcountry. Always take extra fuel (that's what we call "being prepared") so you don't have to worry if you brought enough along....

I Ventured I Gained :D
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

billinmt
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by billinmt » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:03 pm

Zelph,

How come the "white box stove" testing thread is locked?

I'd like to know where you got the last post information about the Bios2.

Bill

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zelph
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by zelph » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:37 pm

billinmt wrote:Zelph,

How come the "white box stove" testing thread is locked?

I'd like to know where you got the last post information about the Bios2.

Bill
It's locked because there was too much off topic stuff coming into play. ;) I've not done any further testing. I get side tracked once in awhile. My interest kinda drift. I thought I was heading in a correct direction by starting this thread. The info you posted put the idea to a halt.

The info came from a guy that bought one and posted his concerns on tinys site. Better hurry and read it before he deletes it and says there was no such thing written :lol:
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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