Everything Nice + Chimney Power

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Paul B
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:40 pm

Everything Nice + Chimney Power

Post by Paul B » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:52 am

Point of departure: Everything Nice description/instructions at Worldstove.com. Material at hand, small tin cans. So the fire box is a 10 oz. soup can, the large can is a 19 oz. soup can, and I added a chimney, a 15 oz. soup can. Place the 19 oz. over the 10 oz. fire box (can). The fire can needs way, way more air holes than the plan specifies. Punched a lotta air holes in the 15 oz. (chimney) and made the remaining bottom (now the top) into a coarse mesh with lots of holes. First I'd tried hardware cloth for the pot stand, at 1 in. and then at 1/2 in. but the tall chimney seems to do best - and the column of flame just looks so great! The 'chimney' fits the big can well enough for now, but a more secure attachment seems in order. At speed, the flame tips just about reach the pot bottom. A full fuel load is less than a full cup, but it will boil 2X2 cups water, or maybe a liter and then another 2 cups. Of course it's slow getting started, but doesn't require great attention; just goop on some jelled alcohol over the wood pellets. It does really fine with wood, too; but pretty decent hard wood would be required to actually get much done on one load. Just light it, it takes care of the rest, but you better be patient, takes a while to get really lit. You can hurry it along by throwing in a few twigs while the pellets are getting lit. But it'll take off without any further attention. With a wind screen (the 5 aluminum panels) it performed fine even in windy conditions. I sorta covered it up when the flame was over, and the charcoal kept it warm for a decent time.

I'm guessing a larger model, say based on the 55 oz. bean can, might actually be quite a bit more stove, just as a 17 ft. sailboat is actually about twice the size as a 15 ft. of the same design concept.

I doubt this will become the 'go-to' backpacking stove for anybody here; but it is fun and does perform quite well, for what it is. I'm thinking v. 2.0 will have the fire box somehow suspended in the er, cowling, so the fire won't burn a picnic bench, for instance. Also, if the fire is elevated the fire box can have a ventilated bottom. But, IMO this is really a 'concept' stove. I think the size, think chimney draft, of the full sized Lucia stove is really necessary to realize the potential of the design.

Pictures when I figure out how.

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cadyak
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Location: albany,ga

Re: Everything Nice + Chimney Power

Post by cadyak » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:02 pm

sounds interesting...love to see the pictures

sudden
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Re: Everything Nice + Chimney Power

Post by sudden » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:47 pm

Paul B wrote:
I'm thinking v. 2.0 will have the fire box somehow suspended in the er, cowling, so the fire won't burn a picnic bench, for instance.
Waiting on pics but did have a thought. I've seen stove ideas where they put a thin layer of vermiculite or pearlite at the bottom of the firebox. It works as insulation to keep anything under the stove from getting too hot. Not knowing your design, I can't say if it's possible to do that. Since you're not working towards ultralight I figure any option is open to you.
"People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

Paul B
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:40 pm

Re: Everything Nice + Chimney Power

Post by Paul B » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:36 pm

....Switching from my 'intro' post on Beginners Please Read to another thread because this is fairly specific to a particular stove, first a couple answers to Zelph

Hello Paul,

We're glad to have you here. You have an interesting background in stoves. Bushbuddies before they were renamed, cool. I'd like to see them sometime in the future when you have time show and tell.

Wood gas stoves remind me of the "Beaner" stove they are too hard to light and keep burning. They might be ok if you use wood pellets.

When you use your "everything nice" stove do you have a lot of charcoal pellets left over?

I liked how the tall stove with the central tube worked. The central tube being a nice chimney to get the nice draft going. What is the name of that one?

C-pap machines come in nice compact travel size models. Good for 3 day overnighters.

Are you refering to this stove that simplepeddler has:

Looks like the one his son makes.

Is that the one you ordered and has not arrived?
ATTACHMENTS

"Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained" stove store = http://www.zelphs-stoveworks.com
O.K. I took some snapshots with my cell phone years ago, and they're still on my computer, so I just need to re-visit that experience, re-learn how, and start saving a thousand words here and there. But for the moment: So who doesn't love the Trekstove(s), AKA Bushbuddy? I seem to recall that in the "How to use" section Fritz suggests using a yoke-pole or suchlike to suspend a cook pot above a Bushbuddy for long simmering, etc. Yeah! the BB really roars when it's stoked up, and I got tired of watching a cook pot being being covered in flames! Though, if it's COLD and you have plenty of hot burning wood on hand, hey it's a small warming fire, too. But I often thought, "What if the short pot stand were transformed to a tall 'chimney' style pot stand, and we could get bottom of the pot up to where the flames are?" Now I have three Unibits from Harbor Freight, so I'm armed and dangerous :lol: No reason to not 'make it so'. That's the origin of my notion of a chimney on the Everything Nice (Hense forward, EN) So when I saw the thumb diameter tongue of flame almost jetting out of the EN, I thought "Chimney Power!" and grabbed a can that fits fairly well, drilled some air holes. Multiple advantages, here! gets the EN going faster, because of the draft created. puts the pot up where the flame tips are. I suspect soot is reduced. Testing, testing, testing: So far, maybe a dozen burns with and without various pot stands or chimneys, it's looking to me like the EN does produce soot on the pot, but not so much the tar that the BB coats pots with. Gotta do more specific observations.... Anyhow, its looking to me like up at the flame tips, the pot will stay a lot cleaner. Seems counter-intuitive to put the pot up high, but that may be a net energy capture increase, and more efficient. Gotta check it out.

Almost forgot: "Do I have a lot of pellets left over?" No - the pellets all turn to charcoal, or ash if I let the burn proceed to the very end.

Yes, the big Worldstove with the tall chimney is called Lucia, and the EN seems to me like a stripped down intro to the concept, easily knocked together by any OC stover. Especially with a Unibit and electric drill. So why not add a chimney that further imitates the Lucia? Since counting grams is not part of the exercise here (I'd like it to be portable enough to be carried on a short day hike, or even an overnight, but I'm not thinking about avoiding those ounces that add up 'cuz you're carrying 'em Every Day on a longer hike) who cares if it ends up weighing 10, 15 or even 20 ounces. So I'm looking at the EN as the 'engine', and let's see how much more like the Lucia it can become, and still be smaller and portable. "nothing ventured, nothing gained", right? And we need to test limits (at least, some limits, not others :shock: ) So I need to run the tall chimney or any other mods right out in the wind, no wind screen, to see if the thing will at least stay lit. In short hand, seems like a yellow flame inferno will at least stay lit in a modest breeze, but the coveted blue flame will require highly controlled and protected er, aspiration? Draft in the stove needs to be protected from the external environment. Suddenly I have images of several easily implemented variations, on both the BB and the EN. I'm finding the EN easy enough to light, just SLOW, and a lot more wind resistant than I'd anticipated. Yes, the EN makes charcoal from the wood pellets, and it's possible to get some 'keep it warm' heat from that charcoal - possibly a good reason to leave the chimney as a 'modular' component. We'll see...

Hey, Sudden: good suggestion 'bout the Vermiculite or Pearlite. So far, I'm just drilling holes and stacking cans. I've seen videos about the Midge which involves assembly - the firebox goes into the top, rests on screws or suchlike, above the bottom, and the gas wick is placed over the firebox. So far, I'm just letting the firebox (fire can) rest on the ground, using a small piece of SS flashing to protect the aluminum table. Not an elegant or thorough solution.... Thanks for the suggestion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXFCH4upOOI Hope that makes a 'live' link. So Cheapbastard's hybrid gives me thoughts about a small tube to feed wood pellets into the fire box without dis-assembling anything. I don't mind if this ends up weighing even 2 lbs. of course 14 oz would be better....

Speaking of 14 oz. - http://rocketstoves.org/ I'm still hoping a month later that this will arrive on my doorstep. Seems like a much lighter more transportable alternative to the Tecstove. Not the same, but a good alternative for the weight savings.

I'm thinking there has to be an easy way to make a mini-Lucia, and/or a small, light rocket/woodgas stove that can run on pellets... :ugeek:

This is fast to make, easy, simple, yet elegant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVtrzIq5ktc

But I am willing to go to some effort and incur some weight penalty to reduce smoke and tar.

DUH! the whole point of the Lucia is, the fuel gets hot enough to make woodgas WITHOUT THE PRESENCE OF OXYGEN ! And there's enough insulation/mass/draft to make this work. Is it possible for less than 2 lbs. of cut up cans to achieve this???

"My Editor" wants a cup of coffee now, so -


.... and that's a wrap.....

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zelph
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Re: Everything Nice + Chimney Power

Post by zelph » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:41 pm

If we wanted buy a Lucia, we would have to buy 500 as a group buy. They will make the parts and we would have to assemble. :?

I don't think a scaled down version can be made. I don't think anyone is knocking their doors down to get at these Lucias. I suspect the reason being wood pellets need to be used as fuel to get the nice clean flame.
I think the size, think chimney draft, of the full sized Lucia stove is really necessary to realize the potential of the design.
I agree with you on that. Can't get any smaller, need the chimney height.

I was disappointed in their "Beaner" stove. They recommended you start off with wood pellets. They don't even send along a pop can thats ready to attach to the body of the stove. :roll:
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

oops56
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Re: Everything Nice + Chimney Power

Post by oops56 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:09 pm

well all i can say wood does burn a little dirty so if dirt you no like dont hike cause you going to get the out door dirt on you and your hands and clothes so best hike a paved road in your sunday best then you stay clean and eat at mm :lol: :lol:
Man play with fire man get burnt

simplepeddler
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Re: Everything Nice + Chimney Power

Post by simplepeddler » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:44 pm

The stove from Rocket stove is basically our stove, less the vermiculite. We also use a larger internal can than a regular veggie can. We use the larger baked bean cans.

He will get it to you, but it takes forever, that is why we started making our own. Guy is on you tube making a stove out of a metal oil can as well.
We needed the stove to cook in a competition and could not wait on it......so thus the "Jambo Hobo" was born.

With the vermiculite added 1 to 1 and half inches off the bottom it will not scar a table top.
It does get hot to the touch, but not hot enough the burn quickly.

I find it burns more consistent than the "hobo" type stove, although we have used and see those used as well.

Now please keep in mind we do not hike, we camp so I carry everything to the camp by boat not packing so weight is no issue.

Paul B
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Re: Everything Nice + Chimney Power

Post by Paul B » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:57 am

Just spent some time with the EN Chimney, and lit up a BushBuddy, too, for that side-by-side. Of course the BB is WAY more powerful; boils a liter in few minutes. The tool for survival in the wilderness, or cooking in an expeditious manner! But, the EN-C is batch loaded, doesn't really take very long to light, will stay lit in windy conditions (wind shield is best, of course).Darn near smoke free. Probably just as well to empty and re-load, rather than add fuel. Doesn't take long, though - under 2 minutes, I'd say. Just the thing if you want to boil some water, without minding the stove. I bet a larger one, maybe 4" OD can, would burn hotter and longer, and maybe better tolerate adding fuel. I'm guessing the actual Lucia can't really be scaled down to backpack size, but that every little size increase of the EN will make it more robust, more practical for cooking, etc. The little EN does very nicely on wood, but can't hold enough to get much done. Oh, it did boil 2 cups on wood. I bet if the diameter was larger, and the draft higher, it could be batch loaded with finger size 'logs' of hardwood, stacked vertical, and work very well.

So, at this point, IMO - EN is very efficient, lights easy, actually reasonably fast if you're willing to top off the fuel with a tablespoon of alcohol jel. Stays lit and does burn all the fuel. Sort of a one trick pony, but really good at what it does.

My subjective evaluation is, I really like the no smoke, clean burn! But if your life depends on having a really effective fire, the BB is way better.

Lucia: Yeah, 500 minimum order; I just couldn't think of 499 like-minded friends.

I've read of the disappointing performance of the 'Beaner, and I'm thinking this EN+C is a better performer.

Anyhow, I like burning wood, but I don't get along well with smoke....

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zelph
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Re: Everything Nice + Chimney Power

Post by zelph » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:05 pm

It seems you've found the right hole combination needed to make the EN work for you. That's great because the reduction in smoke is priceless :D

Vertical stacking and top lighting twigs is my goto way of smoke reduction. Also, never deny by stoves of oxygen. I let them burn hot. One load usually gets the job done on four cups of water.

The Kelly Kettles have so much chimney powe I have to throttle them back with a damper on the top as seen in one of my videos. I had to use it on the Large Kettle.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

Paul B
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Re: Everything Nice + Chimney Power

Post by Paul B » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:51 pm

Now it has a fan, without a motor. The gas jet is fast enough, I suspended a quarter-size flame spreader, and cut tabs radially, which are slightly twisted, and act like a fan. Haven't seen it in the dark yet, but I do think it burns hotter, or at least makes better heat transfer to the pot.

Yeah, o.k. - I realize I scan these forums for pictures, preferably video! So I owe ya....

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