Makings for a new Stove

Here's the place you can post your favorite wood burning stove and also information on how to build and where to get supplies.
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zelph
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Re: Makings for a new Stove

Postby zelph » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:49 am

zelph wrote:This photo is from my recent camping in Nauvoo State Park. I'm burning wood pellets. Easy to light with one Weber Charcoal Lighter cube cut into 4 pieces.

The photo shows what a lot of stove makers say is wood gas coming in through the holes and igniting. They think it's "Secondary Burn" :roll:

I ate a lot of Mountain House meals for breakfast when it was a cooler 80 degrees :mrgreen:


I bumped this thread up for PaulB to see the photos on this page of the charcoal starter container that I introduced an oxygen infusser to the center of the unit. By doing that I can sucessfully burn a full load of wood pellets without it going out and turning into a mass of smoking charcoal pellets.

I eventually developed the small version for a survival/preparedness fair.

Here is the thread for the small version:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5093
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

Paul B
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Re: Makings for a new Stove

Postby Paul B » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:49 pm

Taking stock, I have a Charcoal Lighter, a grill for it, and 2 or 3 different size ventilated cans, and 3 different aluminum flashing wind shields, and an X pot support, and a shielded 1/2" HC pot stand. This amounts to a modular pellet stove kit. most of it can travel inside the charcoal lighter. Decide which options you want, and take those parts. Oh, yeah - I'm talking car camping, picnicking, etc. Still, the charcoal lighter could be left behind, and a minimal selection of other components chosen, and it wouldn't be prohibitive for a short overnite hike. (trying to at least make a gesture towards staying on topic with the mission statement)

I tried Dr. Z's recommendation of 4 1/2" holes at the top of a single can (in this case, pellet burner) and it's beautiful, the yellow flame tips just reach the bottom of the pot. But, last night, I tried a couple things with a single can pellet burner, with ~ 18 air holes in the bottom, and a row of jets, eight at first - sorta twisted the holes sideways, to torque the flame pattern. Let's talk flame color for a moment- While the 8 approximately 1/4 " holes were still 'square', the jets pointed right to the center, the pattern stayed there, till, oh, past the middle of the burn, I think, when it just got a lot more energetic, and the 8 Jets became a shaft, aimed at the center of the pot. The flames were pretty consistently the same yellow color, except just at emergence of the jets, there was a blue bit of flame. After twisting the jets, the flame swirled around, pretty horizontal, actually, and there was a mostly blue flame cap; when the fire got hot, there was a yellow to nearly white twisting flame reaching up to the pot. Then I doubled the number of jets, not a really definitive test, as the original holes got tweaked the other direction, to try and square 'em up again, and 8 more holes were punched, with an awl. Now I'm forgetting how that looked...

IN any event, the Charcoal lighter's added draft really makes the stoves burn faster. I am intrigued by the concept of a blue flame cap.

Mostly, I'm liking the burner with 4 1/2" holes at the top. Looks pretty, not overly delicate, gets the job done nicely.

And I'm liking the idea of having a modular pellet stove; heading out on a multi day car camping trip, there could be a variety of stove options, all in one big can - and that charcoal ligher with one burner can is very stable, sometimes a really good quality. It's always wise to be careful around fire and stove, but it's just more relaxing when the stove has enough heft and stability to feel like a piece of semi-permanent kitchen furniture.

Oh, and I took some pics this weekend, but not really close to knowing how to get them into the computer for posting. BTW, is it possible (I know, maybe or not, with my particular cell phone) to take any worthwhile videos with a cell phone? Soon as I get started with pictures, these texts can diminish by, hey, thousands of words....

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ConnieD
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Re: Makings for a new Stove

Postby ConnieD » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:49 pm

I transfer and save photos to my computer. I upload the photos in Photobucket or Image Shack.

Both are free.

Next, I prepare my post in the forum. I add the photos as "Img" files. (see: buttons over Post a Reply).

The only way I know to show a video in this forum is to put everything after the equals-sign at the YouTube URL for your YouTube video inside the "youtube" quotes (see: buttons over Post a Reply).

If you don't want your video on YouTube, maybe others in this forum could tell you how to post Vimeo or Photobucket video?

All three are free.

Hey, some cell phone video looks great.

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zelph
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Re: Makings for a new Stove

Postby zelph » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:08 am

But, last night, I tried a couple things with a single can pellet burner, with ~ 18 air holes in the bottom, and a row of jets, eight at first - sorta twisted the holes sideways, to torque the flame pattern. Let's talk flame color for a moment- While the 8 approximately 1/4 " holes were still 'square', the jets pointed right to the center, the pattern stayed there, till, oh, past the middle of the burn, I think, when it just got a lot more energetic, and the 8 Jets became a shaft, aimed at the center of the pot. The flames were pretty consistently the same yellow color, except just at emergence of the jets, there was a blue bit of flame. After twisting the jets, the flame swirled around, pretty horizontal, actually, and there was a mostly blue flame cap; when the fire got hot, there was a yellow to nearly white twisting flame reaching up to the pot. Then I doubled the number of jets, not a really definitive test, as the original holes got tweaked the other direction, to try and square 'em up again, and 8 more holes were punched, with an awl. Now I'm forgetting how that looked...


Connie to the rescue. Paul..........team up with Connie and get the photos to show how many holes and where you put them :? I lost count on how many you used :o :mrgreen: I want to try the hole placement you used to get the swirling flame pattern. I'm trying to imagine the point when the burn got a little more past the middle and became a lot more energetic :D
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

Paul B
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Re: Makings for a new Stove

Postby Paul B » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:16 pm


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zelph
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Re: Makings for a new Stove

Postby zelph » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:50 pm

You and Connie have succeeded :DB:

Now you can speak with fewer words :o
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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ConnieD
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Re: Makings for a new Stove

Postby ConnieD » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:17 pm

It has "IMG code" (click on that).

Copy (Ctrl + C) and Paste (Ctrl + V)

Image

If you have no photo software on your computer, you can resize the photo in Photobucket (mouse over the picture, Edit > Resize). If that, you can edit your "Post a Reply" here, until you like the size, or, instead of "IMG code" in Photobucket can select a thumbnail. The thumbnail inage shows, here, in the forum (click on the thumbnail to see the full-size image).

We really like photos and we really like video, here. :D

Paul B
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Re: Makings for a new Stove

Postby Paul B » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:34 pm

Image

Image


A couple of pellet burners, for use in the charcoal lighter can/stove, or with a simple h.c. pot stand + wind shield; they do require some elevation if used on a solid, flat surface.

This is the beginning of some experiments about (relatively) small jets ~ 1/4" or smaller compared to
fewer, larger holes, ~ 1/2", I'll try some larger ones, too.

So far, just a few burns, seems like the 4X1/2" holes behave better, are more consistent in performance thru the burn, maintain the pattern of flame tips at a more constant height below the pot.

But, I'm intrigued by the 'many jets' approach. Some of the time, esp. early in burn, and again v.late, there is a radial 'spoke pattern, that stays mostly horizontal - TA DA: the pot is heated by radiant heat, not so much soot, (I think). But in the middle of the burn, when it gets more vigorous, the "hub" of the radial pattern erupts into a spout.

A problem with all these simple wood and/or wood pellet burners is, the best flame pattern and quality requires specific conditions, and these simple stoves/burners don't easily provide controlled, constant conditions. Hey, whadaya want? We're trying to keep it simple and use minimal materials, right?

Now, I'm speculating the fewer, larger holes sort of dump in the 'so called' secondary air, a larger hole = lower speed, but higher pressure, (right?) so I'm thinking, a number of smaller jets with the same cross section area will produce jets with higher speed, but lower pressure; seems to me that would make the jets potentially better performers, at the moment of optimal performance conditions; but the fewer, larger air holes will perform more consistently throughout the changing conditions inherent to a batch burn, to say nothing of external, constantly changing conditions of wind.

Now, something I noticed, but didn't keep careful enough notes, is - the smaller jets, when 'canted' to the side, did seem to burn more blue, but it looked like the flame was starved for air. So, I'll probably knock more bottom air intake holes in that model, "just to see".

I'm thinking, for more reliable and more consistent results, the fewer, larger top holes are best.
But then, I'm headed for putting together something with a more complex structure. Pics to follow, of course, but it may take time...

Maybe more pictures and fewer words, but at least now there are some pictures!

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ConnieD
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Re: Makings for a new Stove

Postby ConnieD » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:11 pm

You can also Crop in Edit. That way, you can limit the amount of the background.

Hold the mouse down to pull the square or rectangle where you want it, starting at one corner. Estimate where the first corner is, and hold the mouse down while you decide where to put the last corner.

For the first time, I get what you were talking about. I need pictures.

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zelph
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Re: Makings for a new Stove

Postby zelph » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:44 pm

A problem with all these simple wood and/or wood pellet burners is, the best flame pattern and quality requires specific conditions, and these simple stoves/burners don't easily provide controlled, constant conditions. Hey, whadaya want? We're trying to keep it simple and use minimal materials, right?

That's right, minimal materials.

but the fewer, larger air holes will perform more consistently throughout the changing conditions inherent to a batch burn, to say nothing of external, constantly changing conditions of wind.


That is correct.........we like consistant performance. ;)

Hint:

Make only one change at a time and do several test burns and watch the results of the change made. Make mental notes or hard copy notes.

when it gets more vigorous, the "hub" of the radial pattern erupts into a spout.


Mental note made of that!!! Based on that I can say forget the radial pattern :o The spout then goes up into the secondary air coming in through the 1/2" holes that focus the flames to the bottom of the pot.

4 big holes = less resistance, more air flows into holes, more the focus of flames.

Lots of small holes = lots of resistance, therefore air goes up and over the top rim of stove instead of through holes, less focus.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/


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