"survival challenge" anyone?

Useful information that may come in handy in an emergency situation. It can be hiking related or any other area of every day life situations. Icestorms, huricanes, tornados, floods etc.
sudden
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby sudden » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:44 am

"Getting water may involve getting down to water. I think it is safer to have a long piece of food safe tubing with a prefilter and added weight, or, use a forked stick to push your water bottle with a coffee filter at the opening a little down under the water surface to avoid the majority of floating "organic matter" and giardia that tends to float on the surface. It is just "a good thing" to be able to reach the water."

That's a really good idea. You reminded me of many fishing trips where we literally had to drop off the bank into 3ft of water just to get started. Imagine being in a survival situation where getting wet would be disastrous. If you had a weighted container/tough plastic attached to bank, line you could toss that out and bring the water to you.

I also thought the razor blade would be less effective than a small knife. Too easy to send a chip flying and dulls too quickly. Add one to your pack but keep a knife as well.

I don't mind the idea of a "kit" vs. a pack. I assumed he knew how to use everything he vacuum packed. Keeping it organized and labeled like that makes sense to me. It's possible that the kits owner will be the one receiving first aid, so having it organized like that might help the person who's trying to help you. It's the same reason I like the adventure medical space blanket, it has directions printed on it.

He did another video showing a more complete "winter" car kit and one showing his emergency food supply kit.
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ConnieD
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby ConnieD » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:30 am

Keeping it organized and labeled like that makes sense to me.

It's possible that the kits owner will be the one receiving first aid, so having it organized like that might help the person who's trying to help you.

I got the REI Lookout pack, because it has useful pockets and compartments. However, I am the only person who knows where things are to be found.

I usually have a "top-loader" backpack. The organization is the order of packing I described. I do use different colored "stuff sacks" inside the pack for each category: fire, food, first aid.

If conscious, that could be helpful. I do not expect people to read, in a real emergency.

However, I tear out the best instructions and have them laminated.

If I used SPOT, for example, I would pin a note to my shirt while fully conscious.

If you have pre-existing medical conditions, have a printed card. Have the printed card in a small zip-lock bag with your prescription medication inside and pin that to your shirt, as well.

For arterial bleeding I have the clamp in a tear off: I would have to be my own first responder.

For airway, the mask I selected is in a yellow pouch.

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People have that training.

Maybe I would get lucky? I don't count on it.

I AVOID situations involving a severe tumble or fall.

I won't go into backcountry with "companions" I cannot trust to not be stupid.

I also do NOT approve of "mountain scrambling".

I will only "climb" or "traverse" a rock face, or, a steep slope, roped, with a trained and trusted "rope team" for companions, or, not at all. I do know what I can "climb" or "traverse" without a "rope team".

I also have that big orange plastic bag, for evacuation purposes. I guess mine is "older" because there are no printed instructions.

I was given the codes for calling in a helicopter, using my amateur radio.

I could give a "head's up" that's all.

I was asked to use the codes to call in to "Helicopter Ops" so they could ready the personnel and equipment they would need for that particular emergency, then, after the private contract helicopter refused (usually because of "difficulty of terrain") they would be standing by and ready to go. That whole process would, then, take only about a half hour.

The one rescue I needed the helicopter, the private contracted helicopter insisted to law enforcement on using the helipad at the nearby hospital. I hope it worked out for the injured man, a head of household.

He needed a spinal care unit: the first 24-72 hours make the difference for his injuries.

The fact is, there are ample open and even level areas near that Hudson Bay Divide location with a road. They "insisted" for no good reason. They wanted the money to stay local, that's all, and do "minimum effort" to get money.

Rescue yourself. Better: AVOID needing rescue!

You reminded me of many fishing trips where we literally had to drop off the bank into 3ft of water just to get started. Imagine being in a survival situation where getting wet would be disastrous. If you had a weighted container/tough plastic attached to bank, line you could toss that out and bring the water to you.

In my experience, available water is often down a slippery bank covered with brush and brambles, or, as you say, down a steep bank at the water's edge and the water is deep at the water's edge.

I have seen a hiker use their hiking stick: the water bottle was secured to the end with a tarp tie-out.

I have also considered a gasoline siphon hose, never used for gasoline, to hand pump the water up to me.

I would be interested in seeing what works for different situations: more photos, more video! :geek:

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ConnieD
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby ConnieD » Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:24 pm

It seems to me, a "survival challenge" is to NOT NEED TO BE RESCUED.

Be capable, practice. Know how to do stuff.

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zelph
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby zelph » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:53 pm

Lots of very useful information in this thread. Thank you Connie!!!!
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sudden
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby sudden » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:06 am

ConnieD wrote:It seems to me, a "survival challenge" is to NOT NEED TO BE RESCUED.

Be capable, practice. Know how to do stuff.


I think your interpretation is the correct one but the average person never thinks it will happen.

Can we find one commercial kit for the average person to keep in their car? AMK seems to be on the right track but I see experienced people using it as a starting point then adding to it. The average person might spend the money but I doubt they will add to it.

I would insist it contain:

First aid materials and easy to read instructions. (more interested in blood stoppers and shock training, aspirin for cardiac)
Some form of easy shelter from rain and instructions for adding additional warmth (I like my AMK blanket because of instructions and signaling).
Long shelf life (think trunk of car on a hot day) high calorie food/snack. (the average person will not rotate supplies). A multi-vitamin too?
Water for 1 day and the means/instructions to purify and collect more. (pre-packed pouches?)
Loud whistle that won't freeze up.
Durable, hard to lose easy to use fire starter.
A small candle. Something that burns for several hours. It has many uses but I'm thinking calming factor for someone who never spent a night out.

Add or subtract while thinking "average" person who never thought it would happen to them.

I am talking about two groups of people. Hikers/Bikers and outdoors persons not carrying the correct kit for self rescue. ConnieD has that covered. They could give the challenge a go and test their readiness. That's what the thread is really about. My thoughts are off topic.

The second group doesn't prepare at all or invest any time in learning. Is there an off the shelf first aid kit that includes some basic survival kit?
If not, maybe one of you should market one :)
"People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

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ConnieD
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby ConnieD » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:14 pm

sudden,

I don't want people to be "average".

My whole "thing" is, you are NOT "average". You are capable. You are intelligent.

I look at kits contents. I look at lists. Doing so, contributes ideas I hadn't thought of.

Other people come up with good ideas and solutions, I hadn't thought of.

And that is how the world really goes around.

Being open to that.

His irrigation of a wound kit is helpful. You can look at "kit contents" and purchase the items at a medical supply. Really. Find out. Maybe his package deal has all good stuff at a better price.

However, you need to look carefully in the wound "right away" before any of your own fluids start to get in the wound. Then, you know if the shiny stuff around the bone is scraped or damaged. Look. It may save the ER personnel from having to open a perfectly well managed wound, you helped close with small butterfly bandages. I only had to soak. I was released. Whew!

I even, successfully, treated the forehead of a "pretty girl" who "needed" 18-stitches, said the MD, but had no scar on her face. It is a long story. We had to get out to the only MD, over 50 miles away, thru treacherous terrain dangerous to all of us. We made certain no blood got in her eyes: a "primal response" is shock. And we got our best "hand pat-ter" person to stay with her at all times in all circumstances, near her, touching her reassuringly, talking to her in soothing tones, being with her. Whew!

That is the real deal.

Not a kit.

I think his idea of a paint can, a roll of toilet paper inside soaked in alcohol, a paint can lid opener and a BIC lighter taped to the outside, and two quarts of alcohol to use is "reasonable" IF the window is open AND the vehicle is not airtight at the floor. He thinks it will keep him warm inside his vehicle until "found".

Me? I had a warm and comfortable "perfectly safe" bivy outside the vehicle until "found" and a locksmith came out quite a few miles on a dirt road to open my rental car: I hate automatic locking doors. Even in my travel trailer, I put installed "drain" holes, like for a boat, through the floor and kept a little more than the minimum recommended by the propane heater manufacturer 14-square inches open window, and I did it, in Montana winter. It is "too easy" to have carbon monoxide kill you!

Bottom line: I don't like candles. Even a "candle lantern" can kill you in a modern tent, or, airtight car.

The "real reason" I hate kits is that people spend their money, never open the kit, and, never read the instructions.

In the real emergency, they find out what a bunch of useless abject crap they have purchased.

Even "good stuff" is useless-to-them.

Why?

They don't know how to use it.

It is better to do one thing at a time: decide you are going to do this, start with one need: perhaps shelter, then sleeping comfortably thru the night - what do you really need? then, "shelf stable" food, try a little, prepare it, are you constipated? try something different. Is your clothing suitable for outdoors? Shoes?

No one wore "outdoor clothing" in town. Now, people do. It is fashion. Okay, find suitable "outdoor clothing" that really works for you. Find out, by taking "walks" around where you live. Too sweaty? Need a "windbreaker"? Need a better hat? I need my neck covered. I like a mock-turtleneck. I need the "gap" between a too short jacket and pants covered. If cold, I need gloves. I need my ears covered. I need comfortable shoes even if wet. I need "extra" socks, so I can have dry socks at night. I cannot sleep, if my feet are wet. Find out what you need. If there are no places reasonably safe from mugging, drive to a state or county park. Inquire, go. Do it.

Backyard camping in your backyard was actually a Girl Scout badge "qualifying" you for the "hike". Like that.

Resolve you are going to be more self-reliant, more "empowered".

Read Maslow's heirarchy of needs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s ... y_of_needs

Start getting "real": that WIKI tells the truth.

The second group doesn't prepare at all or invest any time in learning. Is there an off the shelf first aid kit that includes some basic survival kit?
If not, maybe one of you should market one :)

I keep looking, and, I have not seen one. Not at any price. Even for big $$$.

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ConnieD
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby ConnieD » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:37 pm

I would like to see "survival packs" vacuum-packed for people, with individual items offered for sale, to replenish the pack, but also to "try first". I would also like to see small booklets per subject and more laminated cards. I think that would be the best marketing strategy, to "educate" the public. But I have no money for a business venture.

I started my website to address the problem, based on an idea of "preventative rescue".

I have seen useless tragedies.

The "worst" useless tragedy, maybe, is dead, lying next to lit, not lit, and broken matches with no shelter for theirself, or, for their fire they did not have.

I really got going because a famous man had an idiotic book about his ideas and he had many followers. Next thing, a national backpacking magazine came out, that was more idiotic.

I remember, one day, I was asked: why do you buy that magazine?

I said: So, I know the next "stupid thing" people will be doing and have to rescue them.

I know my website helps, because the information I put on there has become widely imitated, and is more and more imitated around the world by rescue organizations, by governments, by blogs and forums, and, YouTube.


sudden, I had superb health. But I was in a car wreck.

After I re-learned how to breathe, then, I re-learned how to speak, then, I re-learned how to walk, I "started" with Easy Day Hikes in Glacier National Park, by Falcon Press. Well, not "at first".

I had my handicapped placard. On days I felt stronger, I parked further away.

I have also used books for "walks" near the city: 50 Hikes near Portland, Oregon.

The local newspaper published "walks" around Marin County, near San Francisco, CA. I also "walk" on easy bicycle paths.

The county engineer actually has a "road grade" map, showing the percentage steepness of every street in San Francisco. I "yellow highlighted" the "percent grade" I could "walk" without getting "out-of-breath". I walked all over town. I walked from my rented room in a private house over the Golden Gate Bridge to Sausalito, CA and rode the ferry boat back, then, rode the trolley car back to my neighborhood.

I actually got started by making the first "grocery cart" 4-wheeled Guardian Safe-T-Walker down the long hallway. (Now, 4-wheeled walkers are available everywhere.) Next, I started walking 20-minutes outside in Golden Gate Park "panhandle" in the fresh early morning air, no matter how slowly, without sitting for a "break". I did that 3 times a week, not more. My cardiologist, the President of the American Heart Association, San Francisco, CA recommended that. He said, that will "optimize" your heart function. He said, try to get up to 40 minutes 3 X a week, even, if it is a slow shuffling gait.

I also stop at a highway or roadway "pull-out" or "wide spot" on the road way to look at the view, enjoy the fresh air, and even to step away from the parking "pull-out" to "explore" the trails I see there. Once, I found a pretty small mountain lake, next to the road hidden only by a layer or two of trees.

I sat there a long time, enjoying the changing light on the scene and the solitude.

I like to sit next to small waterfalls, in the woods, to "cool off" from the hot weather.

I like the "bicycle touring pro" website recommendation to "stealth camp" just off the road, using a bicycle, so I purchased a folding bicycle on sale at Camping World. REI had an Outlet Sale online: I purchased one grocery sack-size "pannier". I am eager to try it to "test" different gear choices.

I have to lay down, often. Nevertheless, I do hike more than "strong young men" who "turn back" after only one or two ridges in the mountains. I can do that because I am not trying to prove anything, or, keep up. I hike alone, at my pace.

I can do that, also because I keep to lightweight and ultralightbackpacking principles, head up, enjoying where I am, as much or more than the hiking "destination".

I love the outdoors.

I think many men play golf, because they like to get outdoors.

I can spend part of a day "fly-fishing" with the hook removed, so I have an "excuse" to enjoy a lovely day at the river. I take a "sack lunch".

One time, I did an "out-and-back" just because the first lake, Poia Lake, was so delightful. What could be better than that? I thought. Why have an anti-climatic hike. I turned back.

I once practically "ran" over two or three mountain ridges, to check on two european tourists because the ranger was worried: there was a big storm coming in. I used Champion CytoMAX powder in water, as directed, alternating with water, to stay hydrated, to improve oxygen uptake, and, to avoid lactic acid build-up.

Those "kids" were fine. They didn't need anything.

That fact is: I actually do more, than "tough men".
Last edited by ConnieD on Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:24 am, edited 3 times in total.

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ConnieD
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby ConnieD » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:15 pm

If I can do these things, anyone who only walks from their car to their house can do these things.

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zelph
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby zelph » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:09 am

"Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained" stove store = http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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ConnieD
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby ConnieD » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:45 am

I do not agree with TV-series about survival. I have said so.

I also do not agree with "survival courses" that are "bushcraft". I feel "Bushcraft" is for "reenactors".

For a fact, practically no one lived to old age in that era.

The recommendations I have made a realistic and are all about realistic preparation, clothing and gear.

That is what this thread is about: realism, an authentic realism, not a sensationalist scenario for "fantasy survivalists".

He would have been better off if he read Calvin Rutstrum, a man who did it all and lived to old age.


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