"survival challenge" anyone?

Useful information that may come in handy in an emergency situation. It can be hiking related or any other area of every day life situations. Icestorms, huricanes, tornados, floods etc.
sudden
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby sudden » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:24 pm

This is the one I have in my first aid kit.

"People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

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zelph
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby zelph » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:38 pm

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/Spinoff2006/ch_9.html

Here's is what was said in part:

The highly pure aluminum coatings are carefully matched to their substrates to efficiently redirect infrared energy—infrared waves being the chief component of thermal energy in the near-vacuum conditions of outer space—to create either first- or second-surface reflecting. In some instances, the material is intended to deflect the infrared rays, and in other cases, it is meant to conserve them as a passive warming system.


Many times we hear of this reflective sheeting to be used as a survival item. Nasa used it primarily to reflect infra red rays away from thier space items. In some instances to conserve them.

Any opaque thin film plastic film will serve our purpose of conserving heat. A space blanket's mirrored surface would reflect away any infra red heat rays that would normally keep us warm. Black absorbing or clear would be better for us. At night an opaque plastic would be best. to retain heat. Any thin layer of plastic film is going to help us through the night. A plastic bag is going to be the best. Strategically places vents for moisture escapement are good. Any vent we have will allow heat to escape. Heat retention will help prevent hypothermia. Being warm and moist is better than dead :o ;)

Never know when we will need our survival skills. This attack could have been very very serious. Life threatening injuries could have occured. Deer hooves are very sharp.
"Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained" stove store = http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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ConnieD
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby ConnieD » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:55 pm

I have to ask, what was that guy doing? Is he wearing "buck scent" during the rut?

If legal, in hunting season "buck scent" is put on a fence post or a tree.

The only odd experience I had, involving a deer, was it walked right up and licked my arms.

Maybe salt? Lemon-scented sun lotion?

Later, it walked right under a large outdoor canopy, walked right up to me, and, I had to put my arm over it, to walk it back outside. Note: I washed thoroughly, because deer have ticks.


I think this is much more likely,



Now, put her a mile walk from the parking lot on a blacktop paved path up at Logan Pass, Glacier National Park, MT. The snow increases. It is "white out".


This is honest.




He had a wool blanket under his Recon 4 sleeping bag, not a "backpacking" sleeping pad.

I cannot say how many YouTube video recommend wool blankets for "survival".

I do not see how a person in a "survival" situation wants to have a cold and sleepless night.

I do not agree, it is "camping" if you provide for a comfortable overnight's restful sleep.

In a "survival" situation, you NEED to get proper rest, so your thinking is not impaired.

In a "survival" situation, you NEED to be able to endure more exertion with less food, maybe with less water.

In a "survival" situation, if you are wet, from fog, rain, snow, or sweat, your body warmth will be conducted away much faster. Ventilate. Get active, ventilate to dry off. It is a "big deal" because most deaths from hypothermia are at 40 - 50 degrees F.

It is my own experience, cold weather clothing and gear have to be more appropriate at below 20-degrees F with warmer clothing and gear needed at less than 5-degrees F and much warmer clothing and gear are critical to avoid dying of exposure at less than -35 degrees F.

Defining terms:

For me, "camping" is having a comfortable camp for one or two nights close to a lake for fishing or boating or short walks. Maybe volleyball? This usually takes place in a prepared campsite at a park.

That's "camping".

For me, "backpacking" is back-country overnight to continue hiking.

I think provisions for "survival" should enable a person to do more.

For backpacking or camping, I can "opt out" from a dangerous river crossing.

In a "survival" situation, maybe it is the "best choice" among much worse things.

That is why, I think providing a "survival" bag is more demanding than for "hiking" or for "backpacking" or for "camping" near the car.
Last edited by ConnieD on Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:16 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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ConnieD
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby ConnieD » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:31 pm

Here is my "survival pack" for a walk in Glacier National Park, MT.

Image

The pack is the 30-liter Lowe Alpine Attack Summit pack.

The sleeping bag is the Patrol 30-degree F sleeping bag, a part of the Modular Sleep System Sleeping Bag ECWS, in a compression sack.

It is not compressed.

I have Adventure Medical Kits Thermo-Lite 2.0 Bivvy, because it can vent or be closed at the feet. That is the silvery bivy at the top of the photograph.

You have already seen my "complete kitchen". I think you can see, compressed a little, there is room for everything in a small pack without terrific expense.

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ConnieD
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby ConnieD » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:29 pm

Here is a comparison.

Image

I got this REI Lookout pack, on the left. It is a 40-liter backpack I use for weekend backpackpacking.

My point is a 30-liter pack is a small pack, and, not inconvenient to bring along every time.

I also have a lumbar pack, if I prefer to be stylish and I do when I go to tourist places.
Last edited by ConnieD on Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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ConnieD
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby ConnieD » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:06 pm

For a lightweight and small package, Heatsheets are useful.

I use Heatsheets to reflect the heat of a small fire.

I think, rigged as a tarp that will reflect the heat of a small fire, the Heatsheets are very worthwhile.

That is how I use it.

I would like very much to have Heatsheets with a subdued colors on the outside.

I saw a You Tube video of one man melting snow for drinking water, by putting bits of clean snow on the reflective surface. That was useful.

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zelph
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby zelph » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:29 pm

My point is a 30-liter pack is a small pack, and, not inconvenient to bring along every time.

All packs should have emergency items in it. Day hikes, is what I'm refering to. Overnighters have shelters/tents/hammocks to keep us warm.

Keep warm and hydrated. Can't walk for some reason, use your emergency loud whistle to call for help. Use you emergency signal mirror. ;)
"Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained" stove store = http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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ConnieD
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby ConnieD » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:46 pm

All packs should have emergency items in it. Day hikes, is what I'm refering to. Overnighters have shelters/tents/hammocks to keep us warm.

I know that. That 40-liter "daypack" has worked well for 4-5 nights out and carried ample food, but I have great "extra" clothing and truly great lightweight gear I use for those backpacking-hiking trips.

I have been making a point on my website for some time now, if you step away from your car for a brief hike on a trail, you ought to have sufficient "extra" clothing and gear for overnight.

I show people "extra" clothing and adequate gear that may be packed in a "day pack" or in a "lumbar pack" or "waist pack".

I also show strategies for packing better:

For example, I use the compression sack illustrated above. But I do not compress it entirely. I compress it enough to get in sideways in the bottom of the pack. Next, I loosen the compression straps a little bit, and move it around pushing it here and there to get it to conform to the shape of the bottom of the pack. Then, I snug up the compression straps so it doesn't gradually expand higher up in the pack.

Extra warm clothing goes on next. Food preps go on next. Raingear on top.

I do it that way, for a soft pack, so the sleeping bag is not hard like a "rock" against my back.

All this "practical knowledge" adds to your having a "good time" and not having a "tragedy".

More important, having "extra" clothing and gear for overnight, in the event of a sudden weather change, which is a frequent occurance in high mountains, coastal mountains, or on the coast.

If a person knows they can stay out overnight with reasonable warmth and restful sleep, they are always less likely to panic. It is fear and fatigue that can overcome even a strong-willed person.

Experienced hunters have died from hypothermia after running in panic.

It is better to "practice" a little "survival" with your "extra" clothing and gear, even if it is in "backyard camping".

sudden
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby sudden » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:30 pm

What would you add to this one?
I like his idea of vacuum packing.
"People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

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ConnieD
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Re: "survival challenge" anyone?

Postby ConnieD » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:42 pm

Ouch.

I don't like "kits".

I think they are inadequate.

I hate how people put their "trust" in a kit and get in trouble.

It is necessary to "try" the items you consider "worthy" for your survival.

The "kit" is closed.

You have to open it to "find out".

I don't like "kits".

Instead, "outfit" a small pack you like: a sports bag, a waist pack, a backpack.

It is your very own "emergency kit".

I like some of the items, I will "get into that".

I like vacuum sealers.

I have one of the first sold for home use. I also have the Ziploc vacuum sealer, another "portable" one more elaborate I have not used, and the Pump and Seal, which is not small.

I repackage food, to make it more compact in my backpack.

I also use it to preserve freshness of coffee, etc.

I even use it to vacuum pack bulky "extra" clothing, like my Windstopper fleece vest.

Now, I have a Patagonia Nano Puff Pullover that packs to small volume.

I am moving on to a 900-fill down sleeping quilt, as well as, an APEX synthetic sleeping quilt, depending on conditions. I understand synthetic APEX may be vacuum packed. However, either one requires so little weight and little volume in the pack.

Even my relatively inexpensive 30-degree F rated E.C.W.S. Scout mummy sleeping bag isn't a "heavyweight" and it takes up little room in the bottom of a 30-liter soft backpack or one end of a carryall bag.

But you MUST have insulation between you and the plastic or mylar or whatever bivy: the cold will get to you by "conduction" if you do not have insulation between you and the plastic.

If you are a hunter, you may have a jacket, bibs, longjohns. It could work well.

I carry "longjohns" vacuum packed as "extra" clothing for my "sleep system". Even silkweights are quite warm.

Most people have "plastic" clothing: I do not recommend Gore-Tex. It is "cold" in cold conditions.

I don't like plastic bags, especially black plastic bags. It is a "body bag". There are too many failures of "survival" where plastic bags were used. That is my experience. Sorry, zelph. Prove me wrong.

Bright orange may help, if you signal and it helps you be seen. Then, it helps.

How about firing three shots?

Have a gun? Fire three shots.

In certain regions, a whistle helps. In many places, a whistle cannot be heard. I have the loudest. I carry a Storm Whistle. It can cause hearing damage, if used in a closed space.

Bivy?

Even Todd-Tex, a great bivy material, although relatively heavy and bulky, needs insulation between you and the bivy. I know: I was cozy and slept the entire night, stranded in the coastal mountains of south-west Oregon. I used an alpaca wrap.

I have a 20 mm "button" compass.

I have it in a little plastic bag, because it is easily "lost".

I have a Suunto Micro Clipper compass that slides over the narrow strap on a backpack. I have a Suunto M9 wrist compass with a sighting slot for serious land navigation.

I have a zipper pull compass.

I have three or four compass and 7.5 minute series topographic maps with me every "outing". Okay, I use Topo in my iPod Touch. Before that, I purchased the 7.5 series maps. Next, I got National Geographic Trails Series CD for my state and printed my maps on waterproof paper.

Have maps, for near where you are.

Get acquainted with the terrain, for where you are.

I wouldn't want to rely entirely on a 20 mm compass, even if it were glued onto the end of a "fishing tube" kit seen on YouTube. However, it is nice "kit".

Getting water may involve getting down to water. I think it is safer to have a long piece of food safe tubing with a prefilter and added weight, or, use a forked stick to push your water bottle with a coffee filter at the opening a little down under the water surface to avoid the majority of floating "organic matter" and giardia that tends to float on the surface. It is just "a good thing" to be able to reach the water.

Shelter #1

Water #2

Food #3

Have food. Repackage "shelf stable" food. Say: "You are my 'extra' food for emergencies".

Snare wire is fiction.

Snares, to be effective, must kill. Buy real snares. Buy a dozen minimum. Two dozen is more realistic. Then, you have to check your "trapline" because other animals will eat what you catch.

Bird snares can be effective: have a half dozen on one piece of a branch lying on the ground tied to something secure. Got birdseed? Maybe couscous? Coarse cornmeal? Grits? Illegal. For survival only.

If there are ducks or geese, you might put a "smelly slimy slug" on a treble hook tied on a thin but strong line to something solid. Illegal. For survival only.

Fish traps are more effective than a fishing line. Illegal. For survival only.

If you use snares or fish traps, your scent must not be on the snare or on the fish trap.

Do you have separate gloves you use for nothing else?

Hand line fishing seems to be effective, if you have weight shot and a bobber to toss it out far near a bank or underwater obstruction where fish like to hide.

If you can lower "bait" off a ledge, and, pull it up very steady, it might be effective.

Artificial smelly-baits might be effective.

First-aid:

Only have what you know how to use: Extra Strength Excedrin, Tylenol, Aspirin, antihistamine, knuckle bandaids, fingertip bandaids, Xeroform burn bandages, small butterfly bandages, non-stick "flats" and surgical tape, perhaps. It is up to you to make your own "first-aid kit" you know how to use.

I think razor blades soon lose their edge. Have a small knife.

Have folding sissors, if you can find them, or, at least have fingernail clippers for that fishing line.

I always have Croakies to hold my eyeglasses in place. It is so common for a small twig or branch to flip the eyeglasses off your face. So many people "get lost" because they "lost" their eyeglasses.

Almost nobody thinks about that.

I would rather have a stout waxed line, easier to carry, than 550 paracord, expecially because 50' is better. Fishing reel backing line, like Spiderwire Stealth braid, is an inexpensive choice. I also like the line sold at BPL: AirCore 2 or AirCore Plus and AntiGravityGear: TreeLine. Learn some knots.

I don't know what a "military-grade metal match" is.

There is nothing better than http://firesteel.com/


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