Using HEET for testing

Give results of stoves tested. At least three test burns made in succession using 1/2 ounce of denatured alcohol and 2 cups of water. Give any and all additional conditions that exist during testing.

Stoves bought retail and Do-It-Yourself stoves. Everyone is welcome to post their results and post comments.
Doggone/GA
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by Doggone/GA » Thu May 29, 2008 7:27 pm

I've seen this suggested before, but I won't do it. I prefer to use denatured alcohol even though it's not as consistent. It's cheaper, it's available in larger quantities and it's much more likely to be used by hikers.

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DarenN
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Location: Surrey, B.C. Canada

Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by DarenN » Thu May 29, 2008 7:52 pm

Tony wrote:Heet Yellow bottle is 99% Methanol sometimes called Methyl hydrate or Methyl Alcohol. Depending on the purity of Daren's Methyl Hydrate I do not think he has a problem complying with using HEET as the STD fuel.
Tony
Tony;
the Methyl Hydrate that i get here has printed on the label, "99.9% pure".
i buy it in 3.78 liter plastic jugs for about $6 Canadian.

i think anyone switching from Denatured to Methyl Hydrate will be disapointed with the performance.
Daren......
"I'd rather be happy than right." Slartibartfast

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zelph
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by zelph » Thu May 29, 2008 8:07 pm

Here is some information I got from DoodaMan on the West coast:

I got the newest version of the StarLyte UltraLyte stove with the metal screen/grommet filling port.
I put it through the paces for comparison to the previous two versions I have and without surprise,
it performed just the same. Two cup cold tap water brought to a boil (not vigorous, but boiling) on
1/2 fl. oz. of yellow bottle heet. Same test conditions as last time, but outside temps in the low
60s, so 10F cooler ambient than last test sequence. This is with the IMUSA 700ml aluminum cup
and without a wind screen.

Note: I do get noticeably better results using a mixture of red and yellow bottle heet. Yellow bottle
heet (methanol) has 4.68 kcal/gm but red bottle heet (isoproponal) has 7.20 kcal/gm of energy
content. I have been playing with mixtures of 4:1 to 1:1 of yellow:red to get the best performance
and keep a clean flame. So far, 1:1 seems fine. Unfortunately, I live pretty much right at sea level,
so my testing has no altitude component. I think testing using just methanol is important because
that is the lowest energy content fuel option for an alcohol stove. For a hiker doing re-supply along
the trail, an option of denatured alcohol (Ethanol) or heet mixing may not be available and yellow
bottle heet seems to be the easiest stuff to find (and cheap at less than $2 for the 12 oz bottle).


Here locally, I can get yellow bottle heet at:
kMart, Walmart, Target, any of the various chain auto supply stores,
and most of the larger full service service gas stations (i.e not the
gasoline pump only type, but ones with service bay). I guess that
living in a big city makes my options here so easy with dozens of
places within a few miles that usually have it on the shelf. (although,
occasionally, some of the stores are out of stock) Also, just now,
I checked and you can get a case of yellow bottle heet on eBay for
$23.50 shipped. That is more than I typically spend but is right at
the $2 per bottle price point. (my local Walmart is the cheapest
and I have often bought a bottle for 99 cents, and kMart is usually
around $1.29 per bottle.)

While I was out on the AT last year, at some of the smaller towns,
I found it at combo markets (food/medicine/hardware) that had a
small auto part isle. I even found it at a dollar store in one town.
Because it was so cheap, I often bought a couple and shared with
others who needed fuel. (I never carried more than eight ounces of
fuel since that would last a week which was more than needed
between re-supply points. I used a small mouth wash bottle
as it was very sturdy and leak proof). I can say for sure, that folks
using canister stoves had a much tougher time finding fuel than
I did, so they often ended up carrying two or three canisters to
make sure they had fuel for their stove

thought it was a good idea to standardize on testing using yellow bottle
heet because of several reasons.

1) low cost at less than $2 per 12 fluid ounce bottle.

2) available nearly everywhere (xMarts on every block)

3) lowest heat content so other fuels will always do at least as well as test.

4) "de-natured" alcohol formula differences just introduce additional unknowns.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's known that denatured is best but for testing on the bench but for new stove designs I'm thinking to use HEET. Am I correct to say that J Austin/tiny uses heet for testing? Or does he use it just for photo sessions?

.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

Tony
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Location: Canberra Australia
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by Tony » Thu May 29, 2008 8:17 pm

Note: I do get noticeably better results using a mixture of red and yellow bottle heet. Yellow bottle
heet (methanol) has 4.68 kcal/gm but red bottle heet (isoproponal) has 7.20 kcal/gm of energy
content. I have been playing with mixtures of 4:1 to 1:1 of yellow:red to get the best performance
and keep a clean flame. So far, 1:1 seems fine.
In my testing with IPA/Ethanol, IPA/Methanol, some stoves did not like 100% IPA at all and some like my Trangia 27 performed better than 100% ethanol on it , my Volcano stove does not like IPA but worked OK on IPA/Ethanol, IPA/methanol mixtures.

As most would know IPA gives off a pungent black smoke, after a day of testing stoves with IPA I felt sick and had a bad headache. The same happened with Methanol.

Tony

oops56
Posts: 1920
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:31 am

Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by oops56 » Thu May 29, 2008 8:22 pm

zelph wrote:Here is some information I got from DoodaMan on the West coast:

I got the newest version of the StarLyte UltraLyte stove with the metal screen/grommet filling port.
I put it through the paces for comparison to the previous two versions I have and without surprise,
it performed just the same. Two cup cold tap water brought to a boil (not vigorous, but boiling) on
1/2 fl. oz. of yellow bottle heet. Same test conditions as last time, but outside temps in the low
60s, so 10F cooler ambient than last test sequence. This is with the IMUSA 700ml aluminum cup
and without a wind screen.

Note: I do get noticeably better results using a mixture of red and yellow bottle heet. Yellow bottle
heet (methanol) has 4.68 kcal/gm but red bottle heet (isoproponal) has 7.20 kcal/gm of energy
content. I have been playing with mixtures of 4:1 to 1:1 of yellow:red to get the best performance
and keep a clean flame. So far, 1:1 seems fine. Unfortunately, I live pretty much right at sea level,
so my testing has no altitude component. I think testing using just methanol is important because
that is the lowest energy content fuel option for an alcohol stove. For a hiker doing re-supply along
the trail, an option of denatured alcohol (Ethanol) or heet mixing may not be available and yellow
bottle heet seems to be the easiest stuff to find (and cheap at less than $2 for the 12 oz bottle).


Here locally, I can get yellow bottle heet at:
kMart, Walmart, Target, any of the various chain auto supply stores,
and most of the larger full service service gas stations (i.e not the
gasoline pump only type, but ones with service bay). I guess that
living in a big city makes my options here so easy with dozens of
places within a few miles that usually have it on the shelf. (although,
occasionally, some of the stores are out of stock) Also, just now,
I checked and you can get a case of yellow bottle heet on eBay for
$23.50 shipped. That is more than I typically spend but is right at
the $2 per bottle price point. (my local Walmart is the cheapest
and I have often bought a bottle for 99 cents, and kMart is usually
around $1.29 per bottle.)

While I was out on the AT last year, at some of the smaller towns,
I found it at combo markets (food/medicine/hardware) that had a
small auto part isle. I even found it at a dollar store in one town.
Because it was so cheap, I often bought a couple and shared with
others who needed fuel. (I never carried more than eight ounces of
fuel since that would last a week which was more than needed
between re-supply points. I used a small mouth wash bottle
as it was very sturdy and leak proof). I can say for sure, that folks
using canister stoves had a much tougher time finding fuel than
I did, so they often ended up carrying two or three canisters to
make sure they had fuel for their stove

thought it was a good idea to standardize on testing using yellow bottle
heet because of several reasons.

1) low cost at less than $2 per 12 fluid ounce bottle.

2) available nearly everywhere (xMarts on every block)

3) lowest heat content so other fuels will always do at least as well as test.

4) "de-natured" alcohol formula differences just introduce additional unknowns.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's known that denatured is best but for testing on the bench but for new stove designs I'm thinking to use HEET. Am I correct to say that J Austin/tiny uses heet for testing? Or does he use it just for photo sessions?

.
Anybody that lives down south try some moon shine :lol: :lol:
Man play with fire man get burnt

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zelph
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by zelph » Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

As most would know IPA gives off a pungent black smoke, after a day of testing stoves with IPA I felt sick and had a bad headache. The same happened with Methanol.
That's for sure, bad bad odor. It'll gag a maggot and make it black at the same time :mrgreen:

(Welcome doggone, why not use HEET for testing newlly built stoves? we would then be on the same level as Canada and Australia)

Doggone is the GA stove tester viewtopic.php?f=49&t=872
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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DarenN
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Location: Surrey, B.C. Canada

Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by DarenN » Thu May 29, 2008 8:46 pm

zelph wrote:
As most would know IPA gives off a pungent black smoke, after a day of testing stoves with IPA I felt sick and had a bad headache. The same happened with Methanol.
That's for sure, bad bad odor. It'll gag a maggot and make it black at the same time :mrgreen:

(Welcome doggone, why not use HEET?)
i agree with you guys on the isopropal. black smoke, black soot, black smell.
but i've burned literally gallons of Methyl Hydrate, in the house, without any ventilation, with no side affects whatsoever. i also burned a gallon of racecar methanol under the same conditions with no side affects. i've been storm-bound and had to cook in my tent with M/H in my Trangia 27. again; no side affects. i wonder what the difference is between what i'm burning and what you are?
Daren........
"I'd rather be happy than right." Slartibartfast

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zelph
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by zelph » Thu May 29, 2008 8:49 pm

i wonder what the difference is between what i'm burning and what you are?
Daren........
I want to know also ;)
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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DarenN
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:46 am
Location: Surrey, B.C. Canada

Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by DarenN » Thu May 29, 2008 8:57 pm

zelph wrote:
i wonder what the difference is between what i'm burning and what you are?
Daren........
I want to know also ;)
Zelph, what about the denatured that you normally use? any side affects?
"I'd rather be happy than right." Slartibartfast

Doggone/GA
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Location: Georgia
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Re: Using HEET for testing

Post by Doggone/GA » Thu May 29, 2008 9:57 pm

"(Welcome doggone, why not use HEET?)"

Thanks! Glad to be here. I don't use Heet because around here it's more expensive than an equivilent amount of denatured alcohol. Plus I can get DA in gallon cans, so if for no other reason DA is more convenient because I don't have so many containers to get rid of! For anyone who has checked my stove tests - I've burned literally GALLONS of alcohol. I hate to think what it would have cost to use Heet instead.

My stove tests are a long-term, ongoing project. In fact, I've got a whole set of tests ready to post...just got to find the time to get it done! And the more testing I do the more ideas for more tests I get. So maybe I'll add a comparison of different fuels using just one stove to the list.

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