Heiniken/Fosters questions

Always good to have some helpful tips when making stove.
Where to get materials cheap, what tool is best.
How to do a specific task. Anything that will help.
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ConnieD
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Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby ConnieD » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:05 pm

double post
Last edited by ConnieD on Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby ConnieD » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:06 pm

I ordered the GSI "Soloist". I got it home, opened up the box and found out in the instructions the lid is not able to withstand heat during heating up the hot water.

I also discovered it is a little bigger diameter than the outside side pocket on my backpack.

The short squat cook pots fit nicely in the backpack outside back surface net pocket. This is a lot to do with my preference.

I decided I would use the GSI "Soloist" for highway Rest Stop "meals" enroute to hiking destinations. I use the JetBoil for Rest Stop "meals" and so the GSI "Soloist" has never been used and sits waiting in my paid storage for a "good home".

I was thinking it could go in the "bounce box" but the considerable postage put me off that idea. UPS?

I also have a GSI "plastic" coffee press, never used.

OT: I saw a WAPI for sale online at a small price that had "washers" and "string" on each end, for dangling off the edge of the hot water pot. That idea is nifty.

The GSI small plastic flask, also, looked good for transporting "Heet" in the outside side pocket of my backpack.

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zelph
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Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby zelph » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:43 pm

OT: I saw a WAPI for sale online at a small price that had "washers" and "string" on each end, for dangling off the edge of the hot water pot. That idea is nifty.


That is quite a nice little invention, I like it :D

A Water Pasteurization Indicator (WAPI) is a simple thermometer that indicates when water has reached pasteurization temperature and is safe to drink. It was invented by Fred Barrett and Dale Andreatta.

Pasteurization destroys all microorganisms that cause diseases from drinking contaminated water and milk. A small polycarbonate tube contains a wax that melts when water or milk is heated enough to be pasteurized (65˚C/149˚F). This saves much fuel by eliminating the need to boil water or milk to ensure that the pasteurization temperature has been reached. See also Instructions for building WAPIs.

Since water pasteurizes at temperatures well below the boiling point of water, WAPIs save time when solar pasteurizing, and save fuel when using traditional
Attachments
300px-WAPI_diagram.jpg
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby ConnieD » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:56 pm

That's it!

The one, online, I saw had the soy oil inside dyed bright blue so it would be easier to see, submerged in the water.

I think including, or offering, a WAPI with each stove, or complete stove kit, would be "a good thing".

At the very minimum, because a WAPI is offered it will get people thinking more about how necessary is it, really, to boil water. The link to the chart, I provided, shows the actual time and temperature to kill pathogens.

Of course, Zelph, I think if you made dies to make Super Stoves from all the pretty aluminim cans in the grocery store, coffee, energy drinks, and more, they would be like collector items.

I know, I like the twin hiker girls of Mountain Lyte Super Stove (see: avatar).

Then, if you purchased a "lot" of aluminum cans of thickness and diameter, you specify, from that link someone posted in the forum, those could be your "signature" stove ;-) and the store can stoves could be your collector stoves

How about that for your "suggestion box"?

I think you have already got the designs of sensible and safe wicking-stoves.

I am not smart enough to contribute more to stove making, except I believe optimum flame pattern for the cooking pot, stove-to-pot height, and a conical windscreen is ideal: the goal of optimum efficiency to heat to desired temperature, to use the least fuel to heat to the temperature and to have a stove design that does not have stove flareups.

That last point, is "why" I have refused to use some very expensive brand name backpacking stoves. I do not want burning plastic bits from my expensive backpacking tent or fancy backpacking clothing burning into my flesh.

That criteria, of successful backpacking stove design, I would say, is the most important. IMHO.

OT: I do think a WAPI "option" would provide a practical method for backpackers to use less heat with a beer can "cooking pot".

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Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby zelph » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:55 pm

Well!!!....those sure are a lot of good ideas that need some thinking over. :D

Do you think most hikers will want to carry a WAPI with them on a hike? Seems they would prefer extra batteries for their cell phones/cd/players etc. :mrgreen:

except I believe optimum flame pattern for the cooking pot, stove-to-pot height, and a conical windscreen is ideal: the goal of optimum efficiency to heat to desired temperature, to use the least fuel to heat to the temperature and to have a stove design that does not have stove flareups.


That sounds like the "ZMart Cooking Kit" :D
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby ConnieD » Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:42 am

It is the Zmart. But how many people know the "Grease Pot" had an important role in lightweight and ultralight backpacking? I like it so much because it works, but there is no way I know I could overcome prejudice against a grease pot, without knowing "the rest of the story".

I think the other good candidates in cooking pot for a good backpacking kitchen need the same development.

The stoves are worked out, so "optomize" 'em with cookpots and conical or, optionally, wrinkle windscreens. People are like that: one person will accept a conical windscreen while another wants a cylindrical windscreen. It is especially true, that people like choices.

Many existing backpacker's pots do not have a rolled edge to support the conical windscreen. Then, the wrinkled cylindrical windscreen is better. I really like the fact the wrinkled windscreen holds up so well, looking good after many uses. The conical windscreen needs to be rolled up around a bottle, while stored.

I think it is so great you have already got more than one successful stove design. But I really think "collector" stoves, utilizing the beautiful graphic design on existing containers is a good idea for more choices.

I think backpackers will wonder why you offer a WAPI device, if you do. I know they will discuss it in the forums and at YouTube, if you put it up there.

The discussion could go: it is better to avoid a full rolling boil in a beer can container some backpacker's use, why, is 212 F necessary, it saves fuel if you have an alcohol stove you can pour back into the bottle unused alcohol, it just goes to prove alcohol stoves do produce enough heat to reach food-safe temperatures.

I think if it is the retail price mentioned at http://solarcooking.wikia.com/wiki/WAPI or close, because the stainless steel wire is more expensive than "fishing line" and is the better choice around an open flame, I think people would like this lightweight device to "check it" and be safe.

I have looked at stainless steel wire, smooth and braided, at the hobby store. It is stong and not expensive.

The 212 F "standard" is for a big margin of error, based on the assumption people cannot grasp "time and temperature" are important. I believe people do grasp the concept. 

The problem is: nobody carries a thermometer. Those are breakable and are usually heavy. 

This isn't. 

This doesn't require reading the fine print on a thermometer. This is a simple visual aid: "it's hot enough".

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Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby zelph » Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:05 pm

One thing comes to mind..........you would have to heat your water with the lid off the pot in order to see if the indicator has reached the pasteurization point. That would require more fuel I would speculate.

The cost of the indicator from Solar Cooking Site:

Water Pasteurization Indicator (WAPI) Water Pasteurization Indicator (WAPI)
A Water Pasteurization Indicator (WAPI) is a simple thermometer that indicates when water has reached pasteurization temperature and is safe to drink.
[9 in stock]
Price: $7.50
Retail: $8.00
You Save: $0.50
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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ConnieD
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Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby ConnieD » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:37 pm

Scroll down: http://solarcooking.wikia.com/wiki/WAPI

Robert Nepper $1.35 each retail (assembled) also has unassembled kits.

Rotary Club $85 for 200, .42 each wholesale (unassembled) stainless steel instead of fishing line.

I figure I can look-in, when I first see steam rising from the steam hole in the lid.

The GSI "Ketalist" lid has a steam vent.

The GSI "Minimalist" has a drinking cup "gap" to look inside with the lid in place. I would use my keychain LED Photon light.

I would think I could learn to judge by the amount of time and the amount of steam, when WAPI reaches time and temperature for the inside to liquify. I expect the WAPI to "teach" me how to estimate the correct time and temperature, and, to confirm my estimate.

I expect, after some experience I would carry it as a back-up to confirm water safety for different circumstances of wind, altitude, and like that.

I definitely would carry more than one. I would make a WAPI a gift to "new" people I meet on the trail or the campsite.

I would even carry an information card. But, that's me.
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Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby ConnieD » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:56 pm

Hi Connie,

Thanks for contacting North Star Devices Inc for WAPIs..

We are a manufacturer and not set up for individual sales. We sell only in lots of 100 to distributors with open accounts.

We suggest that you contact http://www.solarcookers.org in Sacramento, CA, which is much closer and does handle smaller sales of WAPIs

An alternative is http://www.solarovens.org, but it is located here in Minnesota.

However, Solar Ovens is introducing a new WAPI with a tiny stainless steel cable designed especially for campers using campfires. Open campfires might destroy the plastic nylon line on the ordinary WAPI as it is draped over the edge of the pot unless the camper is very careful. The original WAPI was designed for solar ovens which seldom get so hot as to damage the plastic line.

Enjoy your camping

Bob Nepper


Email response.

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Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby ConnieD » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:39 pm

I am thinking, depending on the size of the steam vent, if the wire is threaded thru the steam vent, I could pull the wire to bring the WAPI where I could see if the inside is liquid, having a wire long enough to avoid getting a burn from the steam.

Then, I wouldn't have to remove the lid.

I would use braided stainless steel "hobby" wire, very inexpensive, and have a silicone "guitar pick" size tab at each end.

If a business, I would go with the Rotary Club wholesale offer, adding the silicone tab with bplite moulded in each tab. :D

I think this would be a good solution for the beer can problem.

:DB:


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