Heiniken/Fosters questions

Always good to have some helpful tips when making stove.
Where to get materials cheap, what tool is best.
How to do a specific task. Anything that will help.
User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2041
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby ConnieD » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:38 pm

I have a side-cutter can opener.

Did they change the can, so we can no longer use a side-cutter can opener?

Is it not okay to boil water, for freezer bag cooking or a hot drink, in a beer can?

User avatar
zelph
Posts: 15780
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby zelph » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:12 pm

Not that I know of.

Last I heard chemicals leach from the coating. It's up to the individual.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2041
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby ConnieD » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:49 am

I will not accept hot drinks from a styrofoam cup, because the hot liquid causes formalins to leech into the coffee, tea, etc. In fact, I won't use a styrofoam plate.

Maybe what you say, here, is why the cans have been changed? These beer cans have been changed.

The beer cans were designed for beer. The beer makers would not want to accept liability for an inappropriate use of their product.

That is just part of doing business: you cannot rely on the public to use your product only for the use designed for, planned for and intended by you, as the seller. Babies chew on the crib. The person who made the crib, certainly wad not thinking about food safety, but there it is: do not use lead paint on the baby crib.

In fact, maybe minibulldesigns and AntiGravity Gear no longer use the name Heiniken, or Fosters either, is that these beer brand name companies do not want their name used in this context?

I didn't know what DBC can meant.

I sent Tinny an email, asking if the custom aluminum lid fits a Heiniken can. I got a reply: yes. It never occured to me DBC means, very likely, Dutch Beer Can.

I know I would rather have aluminum, than plastic.

I thought the "european standard" about plastic is about the cobalt "wash" process in making plastic.

The chemical, cobalt, is a toxic "heavy metal" having had Industrial Chemistry, in college, myself.

The plastic coating inside the beer can, then, is the problem.

It would be interesting to know what plastic it is.

I really liked my latest "stove kit".

I even posted pictures.

Hmmm, and me looking at GSI Halulite Minimalist cookware, at REI, only today.

The coating is supposed to make aluminum altogether harmless.

I wonder, Is that true?

Do I start another thread, or, can we continue the Q&A right here?
Last edited by ConnieD on Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
zelph
Posts: 15780
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby zelph » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:46 am

Again this is a personal choice. Some draw the line at plastics, some at JB Weld, some at using copper and some don't care.

Attached is an article that I found on the web.
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/ar ... astic.html


That article is quite informing. Thank you.

The copper bottomed pot being made by tinny is reported to have JB Weld oozing into the pot where the seam is. You can just imagine the chemicals that will leach out when water is heated in it.

Connie, use this thread for your Q&A.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2041
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby ConnieD » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:48 pm

I tried to put up this comment on YouTube.

OoO wow, Tinny. Truth in advertising?
I couldn't believe it. Poison Pot.
Cooks all over the world? Chefs use a tin lined copper pot. Eggs whipped are cold.
The temperature makes the difference.
Tinny, you cannot rely on people to NOT use it as a spagetti pot, for example, and have an acid-food, e.g. tomato sauce, in the Poison Pot. Leaving made spagetti dinner, ravioli, whatever in the pot overnight is proven enough contact. For example, the exposed "bare" copper component, a small part, of a soda pop machine at the movies made children sick. This copper bottom pot is much more exposure; it is more than a few square inches and it is for boiling water temperatures. When you SELL stuff, you are held to a higher standard because it is selling to "the public" with all their prior existing medical problems. For example, I am a "heart failure" heart patient. I got "food poisoning" and had diarrhea and vomitting. The ER nurse, MD and staff said: We nearly 'lost you' - you nearly died. I nearly did die, very nearly.
When a business, and you have a business (not a cult), you have a responsibility to the public you cannot laugh off with a "disclaimer" at your website to read about it or by "truth in advertising" naming it a Poison Pot.


I got "YouTube Not Available".

Does that mean I am banned from making a comment?

Anyway, I thought I would mention it, here, because "personal choice" doesn't cover it. That is more than opinion.

I had Business Law, in college.

I didn't major in Industrial Technology: Materials Science for nothing.

Is there someone who knows about GSI halulite aluminum? GSI also has an "extreme" version material for a frying pan I have been looking at.

User avatar
shingaling
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:30 pm
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby shingaling » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:39 pm

I remember that when people began worrying about BPA, there were conflicting reports about the threat posed by it. At a local university (U of Guelph, which is big on agricultural science and food testing), one of the eggheads said that you would have to ingest huge amounts to suffer any ill effects from it. Maybe a concern if you're repeatedly cooking/heating a plastic container, but not really a threat from hard water bottles...
But public pressure won over, and all of those plastic containers with BPA are safely tucked away in your local landfill, leaching who knows what into the water table. Anyway, with all of the hand wringing over plastic containers, I'm surprised more people don't question (or are even aware of) the coatings inside al beverage containers. Sigg sure took a hit because of their coatings, quickly changing their recipe while never really confirming the presence of BPA (a trade secret, dontchaknow). It wouldn't surprise me if the manufacturers of beverage containers have all tweaked their linings a bit. Can you imagine the backlash if people found out that all of their pop and beer could be exposed to BPA?

Whatever the makeup of the lining, it wasn't conceived as a cooking vessel, so I would agree that it's a personal choice if you use one. Now, how does the threat of the lining material compare to, say...that cheeseburger and onion rings you ate the other day? The one smothered in msg, mayo, bacon, sodium, fake cheese, high-fructose corn syrup...all fried up in a copper pot no less!
Now that's good eatin'! :DB:
Last edited by shingaling on Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Any road followed precisely to its end leads precisely nowhere. Climb the mountain just a little bit to test that it's a mountain. From the top of the mountain, you cannot see the mountain.

User avatar
zelph
Posts: 15780
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby zelph » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:54 pm

Now, how does the threat of the lining material compare to, say...that cheeseburger and onion rings you ate the other day? The one smothered in msg, mayo, bacon, sodium, fake cheese, high-fructose corn syrup...all fried up in a copper pot no less!
Now that's good eatin'! :DB:


That'll get ya to the grave quicker than bpa :o but you'll go with a smile on your face and greasy lips :mrgreen:

Pregnant hikers/cyclists/ all sports women were very concerned about the bpa in their bottles. Mom's were probably the determining factor of the products being taken off the shelves.
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2041
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby ConnieD » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:03 am

I don't go for that cheeseburger or all the fixin's either, but that information about the halulite hard anodization ceramic surface sounds good to me.

Mary Jane's Farm, a backpacking food supplier, is offering a special hard anodized saute pan, the 8" Outpost Fry Pan & Lid especially made for them I think is a GSI extreme pan, certainly not your ultralightweight backpacking item.

But that .6 L GSI Minimalist UL halulite cooking pot kit is looking better and better.

As for boiling water, most people do not know 165 F water kills nearly all bad stuff and boiling water isn't really necessary. I think most add-hot-water backpacker meals would rehydrate and provide a hot meal using 165 F hot water, especially if you had an insulated cozy for the container.

I think 6-7 minutes at 165 F is all that is required.

User avatar
zelph
Posts: 15780
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby zelph » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:18 am

Rule of thumb for me:

3/4 ounce of fuel heats water to a boil, goes out, rehydrate food for 10 min. and consume goodies at 160 degrees.

There are exceptions to my rule :D
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

User avatar
ConnieD
Posts: 2041
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:53 pm
Location: Montana
Contact:

Re: Heiniken/Fosters questions

Postby ConnieD » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:29 pm

Zelph, nice.

Here is my idea: encourage the use of a http://solarcooking.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Pasteurization_IndicatorWAPI - Water Purification Indicator. The link has build instructions. I do not have my netbook up online, right now for Bookmarks. But I have seen WAPI sold online, as well.

Here is a nice chart: http://www.solarsolutions.info/main.html?main=educationalright.html illustrating the time and temperature pathogens are killed.

I think a WAPI, if included or "offered" in a backpacker's stove kit is "a good thing" for saving fuel and for avoiding 212 F in a "beer can" cooking pot.

I picked up the GSI Halulite "Minimalist" and a GSI Halulite "Ketalist".

I will provide a "Review" on another thread. I will say, right now, either one or both are better suited to backpacking than the GSI "Soloist" I have and do not use. The "Minimalist and the "Ketalist" are, both, designed for Sarah Kirkconnell's Freezer Bag Cooking: Trail Food Made Simple. Say what you like, Sarbar has brought a new paradigm to backpacking food.

A number of backpacking food suppliers are offering pouch meals, FDA approved bags for this method of backpacking cooking and the industry is selling "sides" and quickly prepared basis for meals in-a-bag.

GSI has brought out the "Minimalist" and the "Ketalist" for backpackers, one providing a silicone edge pot lid and neoprene slip-on "cozy" and the other, providing a neoprene covered bowl that nests in the other bowl, or covered "mug" rather, that makes a double wall insulating "pot" for making an add-hot-water hot meal.

If you look at these, you will see both form-factors are offered: the upright "cooking pot" and the squat low "hot water pot" I prefer.

I think consideration of this "advance" in food safe cookware (other suppliers will follow) should be "supported" with a suitable flame pattern from alcohol stoves.

The flame pattern is mentioned by GSI in the insert that was provided in the box.


Return to “Stove Making Tips”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest