canvas tent info

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irrationalsolutions
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canvas tent info

Postby irrationalsolutions » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:33 pm

Due to an injury my hiking season is already over until this fall at the earliest. That gives me time to work on some projects again. Im working on a wood burning stove for hunting season. The problem im running into is the tent to go around it. The only info i can really find is the baker tent. I do like that design but im not sure thats what i want to go with. Im having trouble find info on canvas tents though. And i really cant find anything on the stove pipe jack.

So what i wanted to do was start a thread to list all the info we could find on this topic. I know it would help me out with this project but it would also help anyone in the future looking into this topic.

Sorry if this has already been done but i didnt see it if it was.
Last edited by zelph on Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Dan thought it would be nice to have this info stick to the top of the forum
“Do or do not... there is NO try.” Yoda

Luke "Whats in (out) there?" Yoda "Only what you take with you."

Luke "I can’t believe it." Yoda "That is why you Fail.”

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zelph
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Re: canvas tent info

Postby zelph » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:38 am

Good subject. :D

I'll start off by giving a link for information about canvas fabric. http://www.davistent.com/html/CanvasInformation.html

(Quote from Davjs Tent.com :D )

Here's our much requested, often copied original canvas information page...

Buzz words in the industry are 10 ounce, 12 ounce, 14.90, numbered duck, single fill, double fill, army duck, bull denim, twill, shelter duck, untreated, both wet and dry finishes of canvas, water and mildew treated, water mildew and fire treated, sunforger, boatshrunk, marine grade... It can all be overwhelming! And that's just for canvas!

Then there are other materials like: realite, polaris, gala, nylon... all the synthetic fabrics that DO NOT BREATHE! That's the reason we don't use them for our tents. I read somewhere recently that with cool, dry conditions the human
body will produce 1/2 a liter of condensation from their breath in one night! Add this to three buddies and you have 2 liters of moisture dripping from the roof of your tent because the moisture cannot escape from those fabrics.

Having said that, let me share with you what we do know about canvas in plain English. How do you choose the canvas that is right for you? The short answer is 10.10 oz. marine grade canvas. Here's why:
One of the biggest mistakes I have seen people make when purchasing a canvas wall tent is assuming that "heavier is better," that a 12 oz.. canvas wall tent must be better than a 10 oz.. canvas wall tent or that the 14.90 canvas must make a better tent than either of the above. Just because it is heavier, people assume that it will be more durable and will outlast and out perform a lighter canvas. WRONG - this is simply not so because of "fill."

The reason the 10 oz.. fabric that we use to make our canvas wall tents is superior
to the above mentioned fabrics is due to one VERY important feature: our 10 oz. cotton is known as DOUBLE FILL - where two threads are twisted together to make a single stronger, more durable thread. What that means to you is that the fabric is a much tighter weave because the threads are much closer together - more "filled in." I like to compare it to buying a bed sheet or fine linen. Quality in fine linen is rated by threads per inch not by how heavy it is. It is the same with cotton (canvas); it is much more important to consider threads per inch and hence the tightness of the weave. Let's think about that for a minute...let's think about canvas as a filter and what we are filtering is water. Do you want a fabric that has course threads and is heavy? Why? Or one that is tightly woven with a lot more threads per inch? It makes sense that a tighter woven fabric (filter) will keep more moisture out of a tent and more heat in. As for the durability, the double fill adds to the integrity of the fabric which gives it far better durability than the single fill products.

Army Duck, Army Duck, Army Duck... What is this and do I want it? Yes and No. "Army Duck" merely refers to a military designation -- the material must be of equal strength in both directions (warp and fill), it does not address the quality of the fabric. So you can have desirable or undesirable army duck. It still boils down to threads per inch and treatments which will tell you good army duck or not so good army duck.

I'm sure you see why double-fill cotton makes a better wall tent - it breathes and is of superior quality.

The next area of confusion is what kind of fabric treatment do you need? This is tough because it depends on you the end user,

Lets say we set up three 14 x 16 wall tents all 10 oz. double fill:


#1 The first tent is untreated meaning no treatments for water repellency or mildew.


#2 The second tent is water and mildew treated (sunforger / marine grade / boatshunk).


#3 The third tent is water, mildew, and fire treated.

Then:
It rains, snows, hails, and the wind blows...ALL THREE TENTS WILL PERFORM GREAT! So what's the difference?? The difference is how you treat them when you are done with your trip


Tent #1 . If you roll this tent up when it is wet and let it set for three or four days you might as well throw it away because it will be ruined. It has mildew! You need to be absolutely sure an untreated tent is bone dry when you store it for any length of time. We have customers who have had these last 30 years and are still using them. We have also had customers ruin their tent the first time out. (Note you will also have some shrinkage.)


Tent #2 (Our recommendation) Some call it sunforger, others boatshrunk or marine grade. What that designates it has been run through the vat twice and factory treated for water and mildew repellency, The big advantage here is the mildew repellency; even though you want to avoid storing your tent wet, one that is water and mildew treated is much more forgiving if you are a bit careless.


Tent #3 is the same as tent #2 but with an additive to prevent the spread of fire. To burn this tent, it would take "supported flame" - i.e. if you held a flame directly to the tent, it would burn, but if you removed the flame source the tent would stop burning. Tents #1 and #2 could continue to burn without the flame source. Please note that CA, LA, MA, MI, MN, NY, and NJ are states that require any tent shipped to their state, or set up within their state needs to meet the cpai-84 fire retardant code.


Beware! Not all 10.10 oz. fabric and treatments are equal. Before you buy any tent make sure you are buying sunforger finished canvas. Not some cheap imported knock off. You will be glad you did.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4542

Lots of good info in that thread. I like Realityguys' thing about using peepholes:

yeah..easy enough to add shootin' peepholes..even at sleeping level!You wouldn't even need to get out of bed!All you need to do is sew in the zippers and add a flap above over the zipper..sewn on the top and velcro on the bottom edge.
I thought about the vent flap having velcro up the sides to open as a skylight(tie down to be secure in wind)..but felt it was unnecessary for my use...
"Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained" stove store = http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

oops56
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Re: canvas tent info

Postby oops56 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:05 am

all i know my wall tent is 30. years old still water poof and it breathes when it rains it starts to swell up and blocks the rain out
Man play with fire man get burnt

sudden
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:33 pm

Re: canvas tent info

Postby sudden » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:39 pm

http://wintertrekking.com/equipment/hot-tenting/

canoe forum. hot tenting and some cool stove designs. (seems to have the most info, probably the place to start)
http://myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?t=18280

pictures
http://home.windstream.net/JHLange/2010_01_HotTent.html

overall winter camping info
http://www.wintercampers.com/wintercamp ... -shelters/

The easy way (even I could do this)
http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php ... pic=499093
"People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

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zelph
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Re: canvas tent info

Postby zelph » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:23 pm

sudden wrote:The easy way (even I could do this)
http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php ... pic=499093


Me also :D

Post number 9 shows a ice fishing hut that has a stove jack sticking out of it also an inside view of the hut. It's interesting. Check it out.

A quote from that site:

A tent with a stove, that seems like cheating. That one picture with the stove and those big pots sitting on top...it just doesnt seem quite right. Or more likely, I have been doing it wrong all these years with frozen toes and standing around wearing every piece of clothing I brought to try and stay warm. Nothing like eating semi frozen oatmeal slush out of the bag.

But after seeing that gear and that setup, I think I could get used to a tent with a stove. All you need for the complete package is one of those outhouse tents.


Outhouse tents :D taking city comforts to the woods ;)

Oops56 has a well seasoned tent up there in the piney woods of vermont :D
"Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained" stove store = http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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irrationalsolutions
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Location: South Carolina

Re: canvas tent info

Postby irrationalsolutions » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:43 pm

That is some good info. Thanks. ;)
“Do or do not... there is NO try.” Yoda

Luke "Whats in (out) there?" Yoda "Only what you take with you."

Luke "I can’t believe it." Yoda "That is why you Fail.”

sudden
Posts: 1058
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:33 pm

Re: canvas tent info

Postby sudden » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:25 pm

zelph wrote:Post number 9 shows a ice fishing hut that has a stove jack sticking out of it also an inside view of the hut. It's interesting. Check it out.



I saw that ice fishing hut idea and had a why didn't I think of that moment.
"People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

sudden
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:33 pm

Re: canvas tent info

Postby sudden » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:33 pm

zelph,

I wonder if the awning companies have a good material for a tent project.

The one link I posted said the gold standard for canvas tents is egyptian cotton because it is lightweight, strong, and has a tight weave. Apparently it's also impossible to get anymore :D

I found sailrite when I was looking for sewing info. They might have a fabric that would work.
http://search.sailrite.com/category/sun ... ine-fabric

Awnings have to resist high wind loads after all.
"People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

sudden
Posts: 1058
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:33 pm

Re: canvas tent info

Postby sudden » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:40 pm

irrational,

sailrite does have all kinds of canvas. i think they will send you free samples too.
"People are not persuaded by what we say, but rather by what they understand."

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ConnieD
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Re: canvas tent info

Postby ConnieD » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:51 pm

We had a pearl duck 10-oz canvas Heilite tent trailer in the 1950's. It had one swivel wheel mounted on a shock absorber mount. These trailers are still around. If you didn't take care of you canvas, by allowing it to dry set up, the canvas is still made to fit these tent trailers. This greyish-green pearl duck 10-oz canvas is excellent. It will fray at tight turns in the fabric, only after years of knocking about.

This wall tent uses top-of-the-line materials:
http://www.rainiertents.com/wall-tents.html

I have Sunbrella replace the fabric on the bench seat of my old truck. It was sewn with Gore-tex Tenara Thread teflon thread.

You can read about these excellent materials here: http://www.gianolacanvas.com/products.htm


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