"Jack" Stove

Post your new stove ideas here! All stoves welcome.
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ConnieD
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Re: "Jack" Stove

Post by ConnieD » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:06 am

My Heiniken pot only role, now, is as a part of the history of evolution.
I read about the can lining. I don't even buy canned food, if I can help it.

In my experience, a windscreen makes a cookset complete.

I know, I am impressed by the stainless steel cooking pot and plastic insert with the silicone ring and the "burn time" for baking.
I like it that you explain how to get hotter and faster burn times, as well.
I think, I like the lid.
I know, I like the giant baked muffin.

My goal always includes: is it beautiful?
For me, the finished-design has to be, in the end, a simple and elegant design, and that involves beauty.

When are you selling this?
I would take it in my kayak.

I am not "crazy" about the rivets... could it be press-fit or brazed?
zelph, It's all personal preference. I've taken a liking to the Kmart grease pot. Holds 4 cups and easy to fit every thing inside it. 4 cups equals 2 for the freezer bag and 2 for a drink. It's more fuel efficient if you heat 4 cups at one time. Tests have proven that. The Fancee Feest, Cobalt, GoTo and Woodgaz stoves will do that easily.

This has been my standard of cooking for some time now.

I do not like clean-up or food odors in the woods and in the mountains.
I do like the "freezer bag" meals, which are real meals, and I like a hot mug-up drink.

But, for kayaking, a would consider it a treat to have a "dedicated" baking kit and the inner container could hold a "freezer bag".

JollyRogers
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Re: "Jack" Stove

Post by JollyRogers » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:25 pm

Connie, I really appreciate your feedback on the cook set. I will say that I agree with your assessment of the windscreen, however the wood-burner may need to be an upgrade due to the time it takes to manufacture. Also I still need to do a lot of burn tests with my materials. In the mean time I will likely include a basic windscreen made out of tooling aluminum or some such thing. It is really still up in the air at this time as I just finalized my design on the wood burner windscreen and started making prototypes yesterday. I am hoping to have the cook sets for sale mid-January, and I don't want to rush something and have it not work.

As to the rivets in the stove, this really became an issue of function over fashion. I was a plumber for many years, so I have done my share of braising, but I found that the braise can crack if the stove is crushed or flexed. Then the stove literally comes apart. With rivets the stove can be bent back into shape,usually with just your fingers, but otherwise a Leatherman, pliers or even forceps out of a fishing/first aid kit will work.. This makes the stove more durable overall and helps ensure no one gets stranded without a stove because someone accidentally stepped/sat on the stove in camp.

When it comes to pressed stoves, I have 2 reasons for not doing this. First, I don't have the tools to do it. Given, a small arbor press is pretty inexpensive but getting a die made is not. If any of you have experience with this and have some pointers you would like to share I would certainly entertain the idea and put it to the test. But at this time, I just don't have the funds to invest in this.

Second, pressed stoves have been getting more and more of a bad reputation as of late as some of them don't really function as a pressurized stove. (Unless you build one like Zelph's). Frankly, if I'm putting my name on a product I want people to know it will perform as advertised. I don't want there to be any doubt just because someone else builds a similar looking but poorer quality stove.

Now the Jack Stove and cook set is only my first venture into this field. I fully intend to keep tinkering and hopefully adding new purpose built stoves and cook sets/accessories as time goes on.

I'm sure if you watched my baking video you get the fact that I really like the lid. The nice thing is that it will fit most cook pots/cups and it is very versatile. It can be used as a pot holder, and egg poacher, or a lid. It is also very light weight and compact. Admittedly, when I first got this I was skeptical but now that I have them I think they are great. It solves the lid problem for many cook sets and containers, even those with a Heiney pot.

Also keep in mind that the pictures I have posted thus far are the preliminary test kits. Some small changes have been made. I finally decided to go with a primer pan and found the perfect thing to use for it. Typical prime times are about 3-5 seconds before the stove blooms. And it's not just a flat scrap of sheet metal. It's actually a lid used for tin cans that fits the bottom of the stove perfectly and has a fuel ring built in around the base of the stove. This minimizes the amount of fuel needed for priming and also speeds up the priming process considerably. It also differs from a flat piece of metal in that fuel doesn't run under the stove and cause it to slide around on the primer pan. It's also made of steel so it absorbs heat very well and the lip/contours allow it to minimize contact with the cold ground and use the little air spaces as an insulator. This helps the stove prime much faster and perform better in the cold.

I am also going to start putting bail handles on the stainless cook pots. I have tried silicone sleeves, silicone tape, fiberglass wick, fiberglass tape, and kevlar. None of which makes a good pot gripper. Being able to lift the pot with a bail handle and use the silicone lid to tip the pot from the bottom is easier, less expensive and makes the pot easy to keep clean. Also because of the shape/nature of my lid, a bail won't interfere with the lid.

Another thing I need to look into - fuel bottles. I have the ones I want, but like most others, they leak. Now I usually just wrap mine with thread tape and they work fine. But this doesn't make a good quality product that holds up. So now I am considering getting o-rings to put around the fuel bottles and see if that works. If anyone has any other suggestions I would be very grateful.

So thanks for all of the feedback so far. Keep it coming and I hope to keep improving this cook set before it goes on the market.

JollyRogers
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Re: "Jack" Stove

Post by JollyRogers » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:02 pm

ConnieD wrote:
zelph, It's all personal preference. I've taken a liking to the Kmart grease pot. Holds 4 cups and easy to fit every thing inside it. 4 cups equals 2 for the freezer bag and 2 for a drink. It's more fuel efficient if you heat 4 cups at one time. Tests have proven that. The Fancee Feest, Cobalt, GoTo and Woodgaz stoves will do that easily.

This has been my standard of cooking for some time now.

I do not like clean-up or food odors in the woods and in the mountains.
I do like the "freezer bag" meals, which are real meals, and I like a hot mug-up drink.

But, for kayaking, a would consider it a treat to have a "dedicated" baking kit and the inner container could hold a "freezer bag".
I agree, a 2 cup cook pot just isn't realistic or efficient for cooking. If you just want something that makes hot water for drinks (for 1 person) then a 2 cup set will do th trick nicely. That was one of the biggest reasons I didn't like the Heine pot. The stainless steel pot in this cook set will hold 5 cups of water with room left over for the lid. I haven't done boil tests at 5 cups yet, but the Jack stove will get 4 cups to a rolling boil with just 1 1/2 oz of fuel.

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ConnieD
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Re: "Jack" Stove

Post by ConnieD » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:21 pm

the Jack stove will get 4 cups to a rolling boil with just 1 1/2 oz of fuel.
in how much time?

I haven't crushed any alcohol stoves, or wood stoves, made by members of the forum, so far.

I am not hard on equipment but I have stepped a time or two the pack, with the stove inside.

I like to put anything for food inside another container: maybe that accounts for "durability"?
I'm sure if you watched my baking video you get the fact that I really like the lid. The nice thing is that it will fit most cook pots/cups and it is very versatile. It can be used as a pot holder, and egg poacher, or a lid. It is also very light weight and compact. Admittedly, when I first got this I was skeptical but now that I have them I think they are great. It solves the lid problem for many cook sets
I did. I am interested.

I have the silicone lid from my GSI Halulite Soloist I use on all my small cooking pots. It also functions as a pot-holder.

realityguy
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Re: "Jack" Stove

Post by realityguy » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:03 pm

I'm more partial to wider pots that will hold at least a 4"x2" deep pan inside(or 2 deep) for those "1/2 batch" muffin mixes or cookies.I like dry baking so the silicone may not work for that without a meltdown around an inner potstand..but I have yet to test that idea.I did find some 4-5" pans of silicone in a set of three that look like they might be just the right size for larger,flatter muffins,cakes or large cookies.They will probabvly fit the titanium pan set I have also.
At the moment..I've misplaced them..probably at the other house..I was going to post some more exact measurements and a picture..can't seem to find them..too much camp junk and too deep.. :roll: :lol:

Found them!Only set I've ever seen in this size(thrift store for $3 or so)..5" x1/7/8" high outside..nice size for small cakes,muffins,cookies or blackberry cobbler.. :dinner:
The views and opinions expressed by this person are his own and not the general consensus of others on this website.Realityguy

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ConnieD
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Re: "Jack" Stove

Post by ConnieD » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:37 pm

The wet-baking (steam-bake) method works very well for all quick-breads.

How do you clean up, practically speaking after dry-baking, while on a backpacking trip?

realityguy
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Re: "Jack" Stove

Post by realityguy » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:10 pm

Th e actual cookpot has no residue other than a quick wipe,there's nothing in it.Usually the baking pan is aluminum and I coat it with wesson oil so the baked good comes out fine without leaving much..unless it's cobbler.Most muffin mixes require some oil added so I carry a 2oz bottle to add a tablespoon and a small quantity of paper towel to wipe the baking pan down with the oil..then burn the used paper towel.
After we buy the mixes(this year we'll be making most of them up ourselves),I usually premix the muffin mixes into smaller batches with powdered eggs and powdered milk..vaccum seal with the foodsaver and write with a marker on the smaller package what is needed for 'wet' goods..say "5" pan brownies,add 1tsp oil/ 1/2 cup water").I pack accordingly for what is available on the trail(blackberries,blueberries,or for out of season take some cookie mix and add granola or whatever we carry already for trail mix.Sometimes we pack asian pears or dried fruit to add to muffins.
We usually keep a dozen prepacked "instant sets" made up ready to go,just grab what we might want for the day or trip.I keep an assortment at this house and the other one also.
Sometimes I start baking with a small amount of water in the pot(1/4")just to keep things moist in the beginning.I like my muffins and stuff browned..why I dry-bake.If I wanted wet ones,I'd make dim sum.. :lol:
The views and opinions expressed by this person are his own and not the general consensus of others on this website.Realityguy

JollyRogers
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Re: "Jack" Stove

Post by JollyRogers » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:24 am

I think you would be surprised at just how dry these muffins are. The tops are a little damp until they cool. You certainly won't brown them with my method, but then there really isn't any risk of burning them either. The method I use doesn't actually mix the steam with the muffin mix, it just transfers the heat. This means your muffins only have the water you added to the mix to draw from.

As for the pot size, the stainless pot in my cook set is actually 4 1/8" inner diameter so it sounds a if your 4x2 pans would work in this as well. I have also cooked muffins in non-stick mini loaf pans over this stove. I use 2 of them. The bottom one with a little water and the top one is covered in foil. These are then set on the stove. You can use the pans to brown once the muffin is cooked, but I don't like carrying extra pans so I never really did much testing. The biggest problem is if the muffin rises up into the foil, it will usually stick to the foil and make a mess of the top of the muffin.

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zelph
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Re: "Jack" Stove

Post by zelph » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:27 pm

One small muffin is a "tease" I prefer the mini bake pan size :D
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

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ConnieD
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Re: "Jack" Stove

Post by ConnieD » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:09 pm

I really don't like burning food, while backpacking.

The clean-up is just too much trouble.

Also, food burnt on a pan really stinks.

I am always concerned about food-odors, because of bears and "small critters" that would chew my gear or could give me trouble.

If I am going to burn some food, I would rather it be savory meat char-broiled on a fire.

If a brown-finish is desired, I would rather tip up a pan near a wood fire to get the "browning" by reflection.

zelph,

That big muffin he shows in the baking video looks to me to be just the right mega-muffin size!

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